XGE "Training" Downtime Activity - does it devalue tool proficiencies?

[MNblockhead]

I've incorporated many of the downtime activities in Xanathar's Guide to Everything (XGE) into my campaign. This includes training for languages. But to learn a new tool, I use the PHB rule of 250 days, instead of the XGE rule of 10 workweeks minus the character's intelligence modifier.

I'm finding myself waffling on which time requirement to use for training in a new tool proficiency and would like to get perspectives of other DMs.

My original concern was that a tool proficiency represented a significant investment in time working as an apprentice. The PHB's 250 days seems more reasonable than the XGE 10 weeks minus the character's INT modifier. But, with a 250 day requirement, I'm not sure anyone will ever learn another tool. On the other hand, over the course of the campaign, we could easily have a character learning pretty much every tool proficiency if I go with the XGE rules.


I worry XGE devalues tool proficiencies, which in turn makes backgrounds and character creation choices less meaningful. I'm less worried about this with languages. There are many different languages and languages are less mechanically impactful.

There are ways I could tweak it and make home brew rules on having to keep in practice, but I don't want the extra complexity and rules overhead. So, ultimately, I just need to decide on whether to go with PHB or XGE time requirements for training in a new tool.

Which do you use, if either, and why?

 

[Seramus]

Which do you use, if either, and why?

I use the 10 Week, with the understanding that proficiency achieved this way does not make you a master (even if the sudden mechanical bonus might suggest that).

Why? Because absolutely none of my players EVER bothered with the 250 days version. On a practical level, the length of time meant that the option didn't really exist unless the story used long timeskips.

 

[AkaKageWarrior]

I'd go with the 250 day rule, but would allow to split that time up.
There are hobbyists who get as good as the pros - over time.

 

[Iry]

My games have very little downtime.
250 days in game might be 2+ years of playing.

 

[jayoungr]

Honestly, my group doesn't usually use downtime abilities much. But I like the idea of the intelligence modifier being good for something. So many characters have intelligence as a dump stat that they'd probably end up spending 11 weeks training anyway!

 

[UngeheuerLich]

10 workweeks is a lot more reasonable. If you are bothered about too many proficiencies, you could just make every proficiency taking longer and longer.
I guess mastering a tool over 100 days without break seems ok. You won't get expertise anyway and that is ok.
I also like int playing a big roll in speed of learning and I think it is generous not to increase time for negative modifiers.

Also learning tools and languages in the game seems terribly difficult when you think about how few days it might take you to get from level 1 to 20 if you want.

In curse of strahd players literally gain a level each day.

 

[the Jester]

Which do you use, if either, and why?

250 days, because I prefer to encourage the passage of time in game. I like it when my campaign features generational play- pcs who have families and children, who then potentially become more pcs. I like the long-term thinking that downtime periods like "250 days" pushes. It's just a matter of playstyle preference, really.

 

[Hriston]

I use the standard 250 days of training for both tool and language proficiencies for pacing and because I think access to them should be equal for all characters without reference to their Intelligence. If I were to use the XGtE training downtime for languages, however, I’d use it for tools too, to maintain the balance between tool and language proficiencies that I think is implicit in the rules, cf. Backgrounds. I think the fact you don’t see language proficiencies as being as mechanically impactful may be due to relatively fewer social interactions with creatures who don’t speak Common.

 

[Ganders]

Languages and Tools have always been interchangeable, both before and after Xanathar's. Both in backgrounds and in training. 'Training' is actually a single rule about training in a 'language or tool'.

Why do you want to treat them as different? Do you really think it makes sense for characters to learn five languages (or even more for smart wizards) in the same time they can learn one tool?

In most campaigns an adventuring character can go from level 1 to level 20 in less time than it takes to learn a single language, even under Xanathar's rules, let alone the 250 days. Is learning to play the pan flute really that much more difficult than learning to be a level 20 fighter?

In the end, it comes down to incentive, not realism. Either you want to encourage your players to have hobbies, in which case you need to keep it within reach given the amount of downtime they have. Or you want to discourage that sort of thing, so that no one will ever get tools from anywhere except their background. I believe the latter is the real purpose of the 250 day rule.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I have XGtE represent focused all-day training, while the PHB represents what you can pull off while still adventuring or doing something.

That being said, our party recently had a few months of (known) downtime waiting for the winter to turn into spring so they could travel where they needed to, and only two of the party members spent that time working on tool proficiencies/languages. Basically, the character who wants a few more than the ones he started with, and the character who wants to know everything. The other three just weren't really interested.

So you may find that it benefits people who want the proficiency, while not really ending up with everyone knowing everything.

And I agree that languages matter more if you kind of ignore the default assumption that everyone speaks Common. Treat it as the trade language or "everyone's favorite second language" where elites, travelers, innkeepers, and adventurers speak it, and not many other people, unless you happen to be in the empire where High Common is the native tongue.