Would a barbarian/fighter/martial monk be overpowered?

[zoroaster100]

Players from my Shackled City campaign please read no further.


I wanted to ask the rules gurus and brilliant DMs on this forum for further advice with a player character in my campaign. This one player likes to experiment with multiclassing and alternate class abilities, primarily to create the precise character concept he wants to play. Though I'm sure he'd like his character to be viable, I don't think he's looking to create a superpowered character.

He started his character as an elf barbarian with 18 Strength and 10 Constitution, with the whirling frenzy alternate rage ability from Unearthed Arcana. Because of his low Con score he could only rage for 3 rounds anyway. He went up to second level as a barbarian, then switched over to fighter for third and fourth level and picked up the Mobility, Combat Reflexes and Spring Attack feats.
Now he would like to multiclass into a monk, using an alternate Martial Monk presented in a Dragon article. This alternate monk class is like the normal Player's Handbook monk with the following changes:
They gain: Fighter bonus feat list to choose monk bonus feats (at 1st, 2nd, and >6th levels); Intimidate is a class skill.
They lose: -1 Skill point per level, no Knowledge skills as class skills.

Because he'll have to change to a lawful alignment, the character will lose the ability to rage altogether. He'll pick up better saves and some monk abilities.

Thus far all the other characters in the group (a fighter, a bard, an evoker, a rogue, a cleric and a druid) are all single classed. Do you think this multiclass character is going to be overpowered? Underpowered? Do you think think I should let the player pursue this alternate monk class?

 

[Mouseferatu]

Let him go for it. He's going to wind up less powerful, over all, than if he stuck with barbarian or barbarian/fighter. He's taking a hit in terms of BAB and hp, and he's restricting what sort of armor he can wear and the sorts of weapons he's likely to use. And the loss of rage is a major hit when he's got multiple levels of barbarians.

The better saves and some monk abilities are in no way going to overbalance the character.

 

[Amazing Triangle]

Though I enjoy multiclassing as much as the next guy I think your PC is kicking himself in the butt with adding monk. Varient or not he is killing one if his key abilities (rage). You shouldn't stop him, I mean from a power point of view his BAB goes from full to 3/4 for going to monk. The thing for you as the DM to worry about is truly his saves. Every time you multiclass you gain a + 2 in the good saves of the new class, but you get weaker in the bad saves of the class. To date he should have a +6 to his fort save as base but a +0 in both ref/will saves. When he gains the level of monk he will have +8 +2 +2. So he is not overpowered in any really substantial area, just don't expect him to fail a fort save anytime soon.

Personally I wouldn't do it I would go back to Barbarian or if he really wants something new and different take a level of Fighter then a level War Mage to get into the DD PrC. Light armor, Damage spells at no spell failure, and better STR, DEX, CHA, INT and to top it all off you get wings how much cooler can you get

 

[RithTheAwakener]

Personally I wouldn't do it I would go back to Barbarian or if he really wants something new and different take a level of Fighter then a level War Mage to get into the DD PrC. Light armor, Damage spells at no spell failure, and better STR, DEX, CHA, INT and to top it all off you get wings how much cooler can you get

By just doing Fighter/Sorc/ DD . 1 level of sorceror, the rest fighter, and max out D.D... wow that character is so fun .

As for the Barb/Fighter/Monk, hes screwing himself over from a mechanical point of view, but if he wants to do it and will have fun with it, by all means let him run with it. Just dont expect him to do that much in combat...ever.

 

[Corsair]

By just doing Fighter/Sorc/ DD . 1 level of sorceror, the rest fighter, and max out D.D... wow that character is so fun .

As for the Barb/Fighter/Monk, hes screwing himself over from a mechanical point of view, but if he wants to do it and will have fun with it, by all means let him run with it. Just dont expect him to do that much in combat...ever.

That sorcerer level is for sissies. Barbarian1/Hexblade4/DD (assuming human or half-orc)

 

[The Thayan Menace]

Whirling Frenzy is Broken

The whirling frenzy ability made your elf overpowered; now it's inactive ... so there should be no balance issues.

-Samir

 

[Amazing Triangle]

That sorcerer level is for sissies. Barbarian1/Hexblade4/DD (assuming human or half-orc)

Hexblade you have to take more levels to get into DD. With Sorcerer or Warmage he has one level if he takes Warmage he gets INT to damage on spells that is personally the way to go.

Barbarian or Fighter 1/Warmage 1/ DD 10

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

It all depends on what he wants to do with monk. A multiclassed fighter type/monk can be a very effective character as long as they focus on fighter type abilities rather than pretend to be a real monk. Wear light armor, wield a weapon (maybe a reach weapon) and use the monk class for saves, unarmed strike, evasion, the bonus feats (since the martial monk gets fighter bonus feats it's hard to tell what he's going for). After two or three levels, he picks ranger levels, goes back to fighter, or picks up a prestige class. I'd guess that's the angle your player is going to take (and if he doesn't he'll be less effective so this is a "worst" case scenario). He has two levels of barbarian for good skills, d12 hit points, fast movement, and uncanny dodge. He has two levels of fighter for feats....

On the whole, however, I don't think it's likely to be overpowering. He'll have better saves than the single classed characters and will probably be as flexible a combatant as the fighter--maybe more since he'll have as many feats by 6th level. However, with a 10 con, his hit points are not going to be front-line material (for reference, he'll have about the average hit points of a 16 con dwarven wizard--decent but not good for taking the hits). He's also taking at least a one point hit to his BAB and will probably be doing less damage than the fighter (no weapon spec). So, I wouldn't worry too much.

The worry points are:
1. Whirling Frenzy. It's overpowered, but it's also gone. Just make sure he knows it won't be coming back even if he ceases to be lawful at some point in the future.
2. Fighter bonus feats on the monk. This is unlikely to really overpower the character but it makes a two level dip into monk WAY too attractive to lawful fighter types. Just make sure that the levels don't stack with fighter for the purpose of gaining weapon specialization. For that he needs to take four fighter levels or Pious Templar (or some other p-class that grants it).

But your group includes a druid so there's no way he'll show everyone else up. (Druids are a freakin 20 level prestige class).

 

[Corsair]

Hexblade you have to take more levels to get into DD. With Sorcerer or Warmage he has one level if he takes Warmage he gets INT to damage on spells that is personally the way to go.

Barbarian or Fighter 1/Warmage 1/ DD 10

Hexblade gives first level spells at level 4, and knowledge arcana as a class skill.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I dont think that would get overpowered.. but as mentioned watch out for that FORT save..

I would even go so far as to allow him to maintain the Whirling Frenzy... instead deny any Ki focus/Concentration based actions/abilities during a rage, so he can either fight as a Monk or as a Barbarian, not both at the same time.

{and thats not just because I just finished watching a couple old Hong Kong flicks.... }

The roleplaying concept of radical shift in character like this {presuming he went with the iconic Barbarian 'ugh, you wont like me when I get mad' approach} who has rare flashbacks and is working to control his rage has alot of merit and could be highly entertaining.