D&D 5E Witches, Familiars, and Invocation of Spirits

[doctorbadwolf]

So, I’m working on a Witch class that is a bit different from what I normally see from such classes. It’s more an alt wizard (kiiind of), with spellbook (grimoire). with a little less direct casting power due to no Arcane recovery, fewer spell slots possibly, uses primal spells, has a familiar that is central to the class, chooses a Vocation based on expertise in a tool and special use of said tool, and Malisons which are curses, bindings, and invocations (calling power into yourself or into a space).

There is also an alt Warlock that stands a bit as a foil to the witch, called the Anathemir, who has pact casting, specializes in ritual tools called implements, and is like a ritualist Witcher. Currently the Anathemir also has a spellbook and a familiar, but I might ditch the familiar focus so the witch can lean harder into it.

There is a lot of Int based ritual magic in the project they are part of.

Anyway, the Malisons are meant to be things the witch can do via sympathetic magic that can be a curse, a binding (physical, mental, or spiritual), or an invocation (the more powerful, because it calls power, often a being, into a place under the witches will).

And that’s kind of all I have at the moment, so I’m curious if anyone has any thoughts? Does this inspire anything for anyone?

Basically the witch is a bridge between spirits and mortals that is steeped in mundane crafts, ritual magic, and spirit calling, and can use those skills to lay doom upon someone, maybe for good or ill, all assisted by the familiar. They will also be tied into the cosmology and especially the links between the celestial houses and the types of magic.

 

[Quickleaf]

Three quick thoughts:

1) How might the Familiar interact with the Malisons & Invocations?

2) Sympathetic magic in 5e is kind of like the Familiarity rules used for Scrying. Can this character work magic on a creature that's out of sight and/or quite far away (like in another city)? If so, what are the limitations on this great power?

3) At some point, you need to define what "Witch" means to you – what fiction you're trying to emulate with this class design. For instance, Pathfinder has a "Witch" class that is interesting but it involves a bunch of weapon powers that... don't track for me with what I associate with a "Witch." If you struggle to pin this down, a good writer's trick is to try describing it as [Adjective] Witch.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Three quick thoughts:

1) How might the Familiar interact with the Malisons & Invocations?

Probably be able to deliver them for the witch? Maybe give a bonus to the witches checks to not get rekt when invoking dangerous power? Maybe impose disadvantage as an action on a creatures next saving throw?

2) Sympathetic magic in 5e is kind of like the Familiarity rules used for Scrying. Can this character work magic on a creature that's out of sight and/or quite far away (like in another city)? If so, what are the limitations on this great power?

Definitely need spell level limits for that sort of thing, or make it only apply to Malisons, or soemthing like that.

3) At some point, you need to define what "Witch" means to you – what fiction you're trying to emulate with this class design. For instance, Pathfinder has a "Witch" class that is interesting but it involves a bunch of weapon powers that... don't track for me with what I associate with a "Witch." If you struggle to pin this down, a good writer's trick is to try describing it as [Adjective] Witch.

The witch is a ritualist who bridges the gap between the spirit world and the mortal world, and by treating with spirits and the celestial alignments that govern both they can change someone’s fate, essentially.

 

[Quickleaf]

Probably be able to deliver them for the witch? Maybe give a bonus to the witches checks to not get rekt when invoking dangerous power? Maybe impose disadvantage as an action on a creatures next saving throw?

Those are a good start. So a play loop for this character is going to be pretty familiar-focused. Already we have familiar scouting, but your witch is going to have familiar scouting + familiar Malison delivery. Giving a little thought about how that will play out at the table (i.e. the "decker problem") is definitely worthwhile.

Definitely need spell level limits for that sort of thing, or make it only apply to Malisons, or soemthing like that.

You could do worse than cribbing the save modifiers from scrying wholesale, as a starting point.

The witch is a ritualist who bridges the gap between the spirit world and the mortal world, and by treating with spirits and the celestial alignments that govern both they can change someone’s fate, essentially.

When I read this, my expectations of this character are:

• they probably don't focus on spellcasting, but rather have lots of 10 minute ritual options
• they are summoners - perhaps a main focus of the character
• "celestial alignment" implies there is some star-or-moon-based element to their magic, not sure what that entails exactly, but maybe their magics changes somehow according to what's happening astronomically
• they have (cursing) powers that play on triggers, i.e. "in X rounds or if Y happens, you will suffer Z consequence"

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Those are a good start. So a play loop for this character is going to be pretty familiar-focused. Already we have familiar scouting, but your witch is going to have familiar scouting + familiar Malison delivery. Giving a little thought about how that will play out at the table (i.e. the "decker problem") is definitely worthwhile.

Absolutely. I think a heavily familiar focused class benefits from being able to use the familiar’s space as the source of an effect rather than thier own space, but gotta be careful with that.

You could do worse than cribbing the save modifiers from scrying wholesale, as a starting point.

Absolutely. The numbers swing pretty wide, but it’s worth at least testing as is.

When I read this, my expectations of this character are:

• they probably don't focus on spellcasting, but rather have lots of 10 minute ritual options

Yes, and I’ll be expanding on rituals so that there are rituals that can’t be cast as normal spells. I briefly considered a class with cantrips, special abilities, and rituals, and no spell slots.

• they are summoners - perhaps a main focus of the character

Yes.

• "celestial alignment" implies there is some star-or-moon-based element to their magic, not sure what that entails exactly, but maybe their magics changes somehow according to what's happening astronomically

Yeah, or tied to constellations and “zodiac” style celestial houses, which also tie into tarot and other stuff like that. Haven’t figured out yet how much the class will lean into that.

• they have (cursing) powers that play on triggers, i.e. "in X rounds or if Y happens, you will suffer Z consequence"

Interesting. Yeah, makes sense. Could be really fun to explore, too.

I really like all of those ideas.

I do think that a level 1 summon spell that scales by level and is exclusive might make sense.

I’ll probably steal the familiar stuff from the Anathemir, like using summon spells to transform your familiar, and it retains the familiar abilities.

Which is funny, bc that class started as a homebrew “Binder” (summoner) class, but eventually shifted to a different focus.

But also part of the relationship between the two classes is that they are similar on the surface, but the Anathemir is doing wildly dangerous, forbidden, and unnatural, stuff to get there. So maybe the Anathemir keeps the “invoke power into yourself to become a monster” stuff, and the ability to turn enemy summons against their masters, make the dead go into The River (which leads to oblivion and is the center point of the spirit world), do necromancy to kill necromancers, etc, and the witch is more a classic summoner with the power of Gaes and Hex and Calling By Name.

About Malisons. I wanted to call the feature Invocations, because that’s what the skill they are similar to in my other game is called, but I figure it’s confusing for anyone familiar with the warlock?

 

[Quickleaf]

I think you have a great start.

I haven't had time to continue designing my witch class, but I can share my sources, in case anything offers inspiration for your own project...

My witch is a curse-casting truth-seeing mysterious mirror of the druid, based on the AD&D hedge wizard (from 1e DMG), the AD&D witch classes from Dragon #43 and #114, 2e AD&D kit from The Complete Wizard’s Handbook (great source!), variant spellcasting in Player’s Option: Spells & Magic, and the 4e witch-variant of a wizard from Heroes of the Feywild. Subclasses include Coven of the Blood Moon, Coven of the Dark Moon, and Coven of the Full Moon.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think you have a great start.

I haven't had time to continue designing my witch class, but I can share my sources, in case anything offers inspiration for your own project...

My witch is a curse-casting truth-seeing mysterious mirror of the druid, based on the AD&D hedge wizard (from 1e DMG), the AD&D witch classes from Dragon #43 and #114, 2e AD&D kit from The Complete Wizard’s Handbook (great source!), variant spellcasting in Player’s Option: Spells & Magic, and the 4e witch-variant of a wizard from Heroes of the Feywild. Subclasses include Coven of the Blood Moon, Coven of the Dark Moon, and Coven of the Full Moon.

I like covens based on moons. My current concept is Courts or Houses based on the astrological concepts of the setting, but Moon stuff is more generally applicable and requires less reading from players.

At the same time, world building in character options can help players dig into the setting a bit without overwhelming them.

I will check those out! I remember the Heroes of The Feywild Witch, but never saw it in play.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

So, the witch has ritual casting, including witch-specific Rituals of Invocation, and has less auto-learned spells than the wizard (but they do have a grimoire/spellbook), and slightly less spell slot power per day (no arcane recovery very slightly fewer spell slots). They also have a curse mechanic, a beefed up familiar, and Vocations, which are special little crafting quirks relating to a specific tool.

The curse and familiar both use spell slots, so the power budget is a bit odd. It’s also primarily a primal caster with some gems like bane and bless, and some conjure spells from other lists.

The curse can be used as an action (and they don’t know they’ve been cursed unless you want them to), or as a bonus action when you attack a creature or force them to make a saving throw.

Right now it can cause damage when they fail a save, attack, or check, give them a level of exhaustion, or other fairly low level stuff, but you will be able to spend spell slots to boost it to stuff like blindness.

It’s very rough. I always end up having to simplify a couple times before I like a class.

The familiar is part of a spirit invoking feature-set, as are the rituals of invocation, so I might weave the curse into that as well.