D&D 5E Wish & Simulacrum

[DM-Rocco]

Can I cast Wish to duplicate the Simulacrum spell and then have the simulacrum cast Wish to do a non-spell effect like give the party resistance and then the Simulacrum will take the hit for the 33% chance of neve being able to cast Wish again correct? I mean the logic seems solid unless I am missing something.

 

[Dausuul]

Two flaws in this logic:

1. The newly created simulacrum will be lacking its 9th-level spell slot (the one you used to cast wish to create the simulacrum). This can be solved by casting simulacrum conventionally using a 7th-level spell slot and paying the component cost.

2. No sane DM would let you get away with this. Rule Zero trumps RAW and this is a Rule Zero situation if I ever saw one.

 

[Coroc]

Two flaws in this logic:

1. The newly created simulacrum will be lacking its 9th-level spell slot (the one you used to cast wish to create the simulacrum). This can be solved by casting simulacrum conventionally using a 7th-level spell slot and paying the component cost.

2. No sane DM would let you get away with this. Rule Zero trumps RAW and this is a Rule Zero situation if I ever saw one.

2. As would I, but how do you resolve this in a fair way? Does it backfire on you? Does it work only up to the wish fail of the simulacrum, since any simulacrum now is marked in that it cannot cast wish anymore?

 

[Dausuul]

2. As would I, but how do you resolve this in a fair way? Does it backfire on you? Does it work only up to the wish fail of the simulacrum, since any simulacrum now is marked in that it cannot cast wish anymore?

I can think of two simple solutions:

1) The simulacrum cannot cast a "high-powered" wish at all, being unable to withstand the powers involved.
2) The forces that create wish backfires are not fooled by these shenanigans, and the backfire hits the original spellcaster.

Which one you pick depends on how spiteful you, the DM, feel like being.

My own preferred solution is 3) the simulacrum spell is banned--seriously, who thought it was a good idea to let PCs clone themselves for a cost which is trivial at that level? But presumably we are discussing a game where the DM has allowed simulacrum in.

 

[Umbran]

I might actually allow it...

But if it is used repeatedly, the appropriate gods of whatever spheres of reality you are reshaping take notice of you, and perhaps decide to stop your in appropriate side-stepping of their power.

If you go up a mountain to where there is a lot of snow, and set up shop to net yourself 23,500 gg of income a per day for a month, some god of wealth, greed, or commerce takes notice, and... deals with you.

 

[DM-Rocco]

Hmm, but if you are an Illusionist you could "recast" the Simulacrum with Malleable Illusions to basically get new spell slots avoiding your first issue, or hard casting Simulacrum so it will have your 9th level spell slot.

Personally I hate the whole rule on the 33% chance of never casting Wish again. It's a 9th level spell, it should be able to do fantastic things and they already limit the number of spells you get by level compared to other editions.

I did find something from the Adventurer's League that states that you share the Simulacrum's fate if you cast Wish so if one of you is put "under Stress" then both of you are. However, that is not RAW and is designed to balance a game throughout the country in national play.

 

[Istbor]

I may allow it too. Though abuse of it may end in an interesting backfire.

I'd make that Simulacrum Wish 'Backfire" and the powers turn that Simulacrum into a real living creature. With all of your memories an effective "you".

It might also want to be the only "you" and become a new enemy to contend with. One that knows your tricks and shares your strengths.

 

[LordEntrails]

To me, the easiest solution is simply not to give simulacrums access to spells higher than 7th level. Not RAW, but it works.

 

[DM-Rocco]

To me, the easiest solution is simply not to give simulacrums access to spells higher than 7th level. Not RAW, but it works.

Yeah, that would limit the function of the spell as intended and spellcasters already get the shaft in the number of higher level spells they can cast compared to other editions.

 

[LordEntrails]

Yeah, that would limit the function of the spell as intended and spellcasters already get the shaft in the number of higher level spells they can cast compared to other editions.

Maybe, but this edition isn't previous editions. And comparing such things as high level spell slots is a ... red herring. Besides, this example (high level spell slots) is actually at the core of one of the biggest complaints with previous editions, that spellcasters out power martials at high levels.