Wisdom = Willpower... huh?

[Kerrick]

I looked through all three editions of D&D that I have (1E, 2E, and 3.5) and all of them define Wisdom more or less the same way - a combination of experience, perception, common sense, intuition, and willpower. Now, we can pretty well assume that the stat descriptions were merely copied and altered slightly between editions, so I looked up "wisdom" on dictionary.com (link).

Not once did I see the word "willpower", or even anything that can be remotely construed as such, mentioned. So, then, where did Gygax (and later designers) get the idea that Wisdom = willpower?

 

[smootrk]

One reasonable (or plausible) way to look at it, is that a wise person knows to persevere (or more properly has internalized the concept). A smart person might know about perseverance, but might not really walk the walk.

 

[RFisher]

Three points:

When you’re trying to capture the full range of a person’s innate abilities in six numbers, each one is going to have to cover a lot of ground.

When you’re trying to come up with names for things when designing a game, there’s seldom a perfect choice. You just try to find the least imperfect choice.

The plain meaning of a word and its meaning when used as jargon are different. Sometimes a little. Sometimes a lot.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

One thing I don't like about Wisdom is that it encompasses bonuses to the Perception based skills. Now, I could rationalize that a character that has a high (16-17) to very high (18-19) Wisdom would might get an insight bonus, but only if they burn a feat (one feat per percecption based skill)..

 

[billd91]

One thing I don't like about Wisdom is that it encompasses bonuses to the Perception based skills. Now, I could rationalize that a character that has a high (16-17) to very high (18-19) Wisdom would might get an insight bonus, but only if they burn a feat (one feat per percecption based skill)..

Think of it this way: wisdom reflects a certain amount of mental centeredness and enlightenment. When your own thoughts are unmuddled by insecurities and distractions, you have an easier time perceiving the world around you. Mental clarity is the road to perceptiveness.

 

[pawsplay]

Just pretend the name of the ability score is Cool Under Pressure.

 

[jdrakeh]

Not once did I see the word "willpower", or even anything that can be remotely construed as such, mentioned. So, then, where did Gygax (and later designers) get the idea that Wisdom = willpower?

D&D deals in abstractions. A lot of games do. I think that, in the caee of D&D, they had a system that worked with six attributes, one that covered a lot of ground, and the addition of a seventh attribute to cover just one thing made little (if any) sense. So, in the spirit of abstraction, willpower became the domain of Wisdom.

FWIW, in a hobby dedicated to fantasy, rigid adherance to the dictionary of modern English is seldom a priority for game designers. For fun, see how many entirely made up words you can find in the AD&D 1e books sometime

 

[HellHound]

I think it's called Wisdom because it would be a pain in the ass to put a stat called "Enlightenment/Perception/Cool/WillPower" on the character sheet.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I think it's called Wisdom because it would be a pain in the ass to put a stat called "Enlightenment/Perception/Cool/WillPower" on the character sheet.

It'd be even more of a PitA to have three stats like that (I think you could argue that Enlightenment, Perception, and Cool/Willpower are three different stats).

Anyone remember Strength/Muscle, Aim/Agility, etc?

 

[Kerrick]

When you’re trying to capture the full range of a person’s innate abilities in six numbers, each one is going to have to cover a lot of ground.

Well yeah.

When you’re trying to come up with names for things when designing a game, there’s seldom a perfect choice. You just try to find the least imperfect choice.

Again, I understand.

The plain meaning of a word and its meaning when used as jargon are different. Sometimes a little. Sometimes a lot.

Um. It's not even slang, or jargon - there's NO mention of it.

So, in the spirit of abstraction, willpower became the domain of Wisdom.

Has anyone thought about putting Willpower under Charisma? Charisma is personal magentism, leadership ability, etc., but it's also sense of self and strength of personality - that's why constructs and mindless undead have Cha 1. Having a high Charisma means you have a strong personality, a strong sense of self, and thus a strong will. It would make a lot more sense than Wisdom, IMO.

FWIW, in a hobby dedicated to fantasy, rigid adherance to the dictionary of modern English is seldom a priority for game designers. For fun, see how many entirely made up words you can find in the AD&D 1e books sometime.

Oh, I know.... but all the other stats (and I'm just talking about stats here) follow their real-world definitions.