Why is Space always too small ?

[gmnemo]

(I'm talking about 3.5 here.)

I've been DMing for a while now, and I've always taken for granted the blanket system of space-per-size: 5 ft. for Medium, 10 ft. for Large, 15 ft. for Huge, 20 ft. for Gargantuan, etc.

Only recently did I notice that, especially for Huge and Gargantuan creatures, this is more often than not wrong.

For instance, on MM 283, a whale is described as being 60 ft. long, which qualifies it as Gargantuan ... and yet, being Gargantuan grants it a pitiful 20 ft. space. How does my 60-foot-long whale squeeze into a 20 ft. space ??

I could quote numerous other examples, but I think you get my point.

Of course, these numbers are in accordance with Table 7-1: Creature Sizes (MM 314) ... but it seems to me like this table itself is contradictory.

Shouldn't a creature's Space realistically portray its dimensions ?

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Shouldn't a creature's Space realistically portray its dimensions ?

I wouldn't go so far as to use 'realistic' and 'D&D' in the same sentence, but yeah, the space-size relationship is horribly inconsistent. The height guidelines imply that each size category is twice that of the last, but the spaces don't agree.

If space-sizing made any sense, it would look like this:

Fine Space .3125 ft. (0 reach)
Dimunitive Space .625 ft. (0 reach)
Tiny Space 1.25 ft. (0 reach)
Small Space 2.5 ft. (0 reach)
Medium Space 5 ft. (5 reach)
Large Space 10 ft. (10 reach)
Huge Space 20 ft. (20 reach)
Gargantuan Space 40 ft. (40 reach)
Colossal Space 80 ft. (80 reach)

But of course that would create all kinds of balance problems, so the devs fudged it. And surprisingly few people seem to realize it.

 

[Dross]

I do not know about whales specifically, but they changed the Space/Facing rules between 3.0 & 3.5.

They dropped facing and different shapes for different critters in favour of K.I.S.S. which in some instances made little "real world sense" but made game play easier.

Horses as large critters covered 1x2 squares in 3.0 but 2x2 in 3.5 (which implies that a paly couldn't get their legs around their special mount)

 

[Eldritch_Lord]

I do not know about whales specifically, but they changed the Space/Facing rules between 3.0 & 3.5.

They dropped facing and different shapes for different critters in favour of K.I.S.S. which in some instances made little "real world sense" but made game play easier.

Horses as large critters covered 1x2 squares in 3.0 but 2x2 in 3.5 (which implies that a paly couldn't get their legs around their special mount)

They didn't just change it for simplicity; they wanted space to make sense given the lack of facing. A 10x10 space doesn't mean the creature takes up a 10x10 space physically, it means that creature needs that space to fight effectively. A paladin can fit his legs around his mount just fine, since the mount is still only a few feet wide...but since the mount is between 5 and 10 feet wide, it needs between 5 and 10 feet in every direction so that it would be able to turn around in combat.

If it still only had a 10x5 space, you could have a horse in a 5-foot corridor who could just flip around (and could only be facing forward or backward) without taking the squeezing penalties that help represent trying to turn a 6+ foot long creature around in a 5-foot-wide corridor.

 

[Rhun]

If it still only had a 10x5 space, you could have a horse in a 5-foot corridor who could just flip around (and could only be facing forward or backward) without taking the squeezing penalties that help represent trying to turn a 6+ foot long creature around in a 5-foot-wide corridor.

Right. Similarly, even though a human can walk down a 2-foot wide corridor, they'd be hard pressed to fight effectively in that space. Which is why the standard spacing for a medium size creature is the 5' square.

 

[Greenfield]

A whale would fit quite nicely into a 20x20 square, if he could stand upright.

More realistically, we should qualify a whale as a Colossal-plus size, but the system doesn't really deal with them. Hell, by their rules the entire planet only has a 30 foot face.

 

[PureGoldx58]

The Whales in the D&D Universe are some sort of freakishly small animals that are but a shadow image of real world Whales. Obviously.

 

[frankthedm]

Square Face / Reach is a construct of the game for ease of play for limited space table tops, so it will get a little weird with big long critters.

IIRC i saw a pathfinder discussion that said it helps to picture the longer creatures mooching more combat area within its reach at any given time. This is much like how the WOTC Gargantuan Dragon minis had MAJOR overhang issues with their bases.

 

[xigbar]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone tried a game where space was based on actual written size, as opposed to standardization? Also, since most square paper earth maps are often gridded, for latitude/longitude, a similar method could be used on a small scale of a game world. I always grap out world maps at the beginning of a campaign.

 

[heromedel]

I am going to try to attach a document I once made in case I needed larger or smaller sizes. Maybe some of you might find it interesting.

A few notes
1. it includes names and measurements I came up with but no real rules.
2. I was originally trying to not use dnd terms so it says like inch, limited, or fair instead of tiny, small, or medium
3. it lists sizes from quark to type O star

I apologize if this is completely useless but maybe someone could find a use for it or adapt back to using some dnd terms if they wanted.

I tried to attach it as a rich text I'm not sure if it attached

Here is a link to it as a .docx
http://www.filedropper.com/measurements