Where did the Great Wheel come from?
- Thread starter Stoat
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Theo R Cwithin
I cast "Baconstorm!"
I always figured it just fell off the Great Wagon.
Gary Gygax created AD&D's planar arrangement, although it was diagrammed as a square back then. I think that it first appeared in the 1E PHB (it may have been in a Dragon article prior to that).
There were 16 outer planes in the original (Concordant Opposition didn't appear until Deities and Demigods, which is also the first place the outer planes were diagrammed as a wheel). The 16 planes come from 8 planes corresponding to 8 of the 9 alignments and 8 "buffer planes" between them, representing shades of alignment. So the Twin Paradies lies between the Seven Heavens (Lawful Good) and Elysium (Neutral Good) and are the afterlife destination for those who are very good, but only a bit lawful.
I don't know why was there no neutral alignment plane. Maybe it was assumed that neutral souls simply reincarnated until they picked a "side"? In original 1E, there were no true neutral clerics either (or rather, the only true neutral cleric-types were druids, devoted to nature) so there's a certain consistency there.
There were 16 outer planes in the original (Concordant Opposition didn't appear until Deities and Demigods, which is also the first place the outer planes were diagrammed as a wheel). The 16 planes come from 8 planes corresponding to 8 of the 9 alignments and 8 "buffer planes" between them, representing shades of alignment. So the Twin Paradies lies between the Seven Heavens (Lawful Good) and Elysium (Neutral Good) and are the afterlife destination for those who are very good, but only a bit lawful.
I don't know why was there no neutral alignment plane. Maybe it was assumed that neutral souls simply reincarnated until they picked a "side"? In original 1E, there were no true neutral clerics either (or rather, the only true neutral cleric-types were druids, devoted to nature) so there's a certain consistency there.
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Verdande
First Post
@ Corathon- As you noted, True Neutral wasn't really very common- it was depicted as a waffling middle ground, where people were unable to pick sides due to indecisiveness or, rarely, devotion to the murky ideals of True Balance itself. If I recall, the descriptions for True Neutral did its best to discourage adventuring types from choosing them, but I don't have my DMGs around me to verify.
The Concordant Opposition was the neutral alignment plane, by my recollection. Several appropriate deities reside there.
I did a little digging after lunch.
(Un)Reason's Dragon Magazine thread mentions an article from the July 1977 issue (Dragon #8) as containing "the first proper map of the planar cosmology." He doesn't mention who wrote it or go into too much detail about the contents.
I'm particularly curious about the "buffer planes". Why add them?
(Un)Reason's Dragon Magazine thread mentions an article from the July 1977 issue (Dragon #8) as containing "the first proper map of the planar cosmology." He doesn't mention who wrote it or go into too much detail about the contents.
I'm particularly curious about the "buffer planes". Why add them?
Stormonu
NeoGrognard
And it's rather amazing how it morphed into something completely different - The Outlands - in Planescape.
Orius
Unrepentant DM Supremacist
I don't know exactly where the planes originated, the were those early Dragon articles, and I think there was some mention of this stuff in Eldritch Wizardry. I know the 1e PHB had that rectangular diagram, it's one of the few things I remember from the handful of times I glanced at the original 1e books.
The Great Wheel got expanded on in stuff like Dragon until the 1e Manual of the Planes was published. In 2e, there was some mention of them in the DMG, but much of the development of the planes happened in the Planescape setting. I always liked some of Planescape's take on the subject of the planes. Then in 3e, we got a new MotP which updated the material from the 1e book while using some material from Planescape and adding some all new stuff.
The Great Wheel got expanded on in stuff like Dragon until the 1e Manual of the Planes was published. In 2e, there was some mention of them in the DMG, but much of the development of the planes happened in the Planescape setting. I always liked some of Planescape's take on the subject of the planes. Then in 3e, we got a new MotP which updated the material from the 1e book while using some material from Planescape and adding some all new stuff.
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