Wheel of Time Issues

[Femerus the Gnecro]

First, I apologize if I ask any questions which have been brought up in posts from the older boards. Unfortunately, since I only recently bought the WoT book, I've only recently discovered the questions to ask. Here we go!

1. What's the real deal with Wilder/Initiate multiclassing? I've read an 'unofficial' faq online, but I disagree with its interpretation... so I'm asking the questions here. Specifically, do wilders lose channeling ability when they multiclass into initiate? Do wilder/initiates use wisdom, charisma AND intelligence to determine bonus weaves? Do wilder/initiates use Intelligence or Wisdom to determine weave DC?

2. Why the devil is embracing the source a full round action? I'm hoping that there's some errata floating around somewhere that fixes that issue, or at least explains why the rule is at odds with 9000 odd pages of discrepant source material.

3. Regarding the 'harden air' weave, can a channeler use the weave to encase something's head in air? If so, what level weave should be used, since a creature's head is generally a smaller target than its body?

Well, that's all I can think of for now. I appreciate any insight the board community can give me,

Cheers,

Femerus

 

[drothgery]

First, I apologize if I ask any questions which have been brought up in posts from the older boards. Unfortunately, since I only recently bought the WoT book, I've only recently discovered the questions to ask. Here we go!

1. What's the real deal with Wilder/Initiate multiclassing? I've read an 'unofficial' faq online, but I disagree with its interpretation... so I'm asking the questions here. Specifically, do wilders lose channeling ability when they multiclass into initiate? Do wilder/initiates use wisdom, charisma AND intelligence to determine bonus weaves? Do wilder/initiates use Intelligence or Wisdom to determine weave DC?

The 'unofficial FAQ' is based on what WotC's Charles Ryan has said on Wizard's boards. Here's how it works...

1) For purposes of determining weaves/day, add your initiate and wilder levels, then use the initiate table. In some cases, you lose your single highest-level weave by doing this (between about 3rd and about 12th level, when your new channeler level is even).

The reason it's this way is because it's a lot better than the alternatives. If you used the wilder table, you'd lose a lot of mid-level weaves. If you used wizard/sorcerer style 'seperate weaves', then you've got someone who can do low-level weaves all day long, which is nothing like any character in the novels.

2) Yes, wilder/initiates do use Wisdom, Charisma, and Intelligence to determine bonus weaves. Nice, ain't it?

3) They use the better of Int or Wisdom to determine weave DC.

 

[Femerus the Gnecro]

another question

This just occured to me as well...

With the 'harden air' weave, if someone is moving towards a barrier created by hardened air, but has no idea that their way is blocked, do they still get a reflex save to avoid that invisible barrier that they cannot see?

-Femerus

 

[Kichwas]

On #2; should it take longer then?

Quite often in the books we have people being taken down because they get jumped on by somebody who gets to the source faster or is already there and blasts them during the time they are trying to get to the source.

 

[Femerus the Gnecro]

On #2; should it take longer then?

Quite often in the books we have people being taken down because they get jumped on by somebody who gets to the source faster or is already there and blasts them during the time they are trying to get to the source.

Arcady,

I think you just argued my point for me... one of the main reasons I have a problem with the blanket 'full round action' requirement for embracing the source is the fact that in the books, different people are capable of embracing at different speeds. Shouldn't there at least be a feat or feats capable of reducing the time it takes to embrace the source?

-Femerus

 

[Florin]

Arcady,

I think you just argued my point for me... one of the main reasons I have a problem with the blanket 'full round action' requirement for embracing the source is the fact that in the books, different people are capable of embracing at different speeds. Shouldn't there at least be a feat or feats capable of reducing the time it takes to embrace the source?

-Femerus

It's called initiative. You roll it at the beginning of combat. Whoever goes first will complete their full round action first and beat the other person to the Source.

 

[WolverineJon]

Re: another question

Regarding initiate/wilder multiclassing, in my game, I've just Rule 0'ed it away. Once a wilder, always a wilder, despite any formal training that may be received down the road. (Naturally, Aes Sedai and the other P-classes are still fair game for wilders.) And initiates can't decide to (somehow) become wilders later in their careers.

If a player came to me with a really good argument about why their characters should have both wilder and initiate levels, I'd consider allowing multiclassing, but it hasn't come up so far.

This just occured to me as well...

With the 'harden air' weave, if someone is moving towards a barrier created by hardened air, but has no idea that their way is blocked, do they still get a reflex save to avoid that invisible barrier that they cannot see?

-Femerus

I don't think so. Depending on circumstances, I might allow a character a spot check or other check to notice that something is strange -- perhaps an observant character would have a chance to notice that debris being blown by a breeze is being stopped suddenly, or is blowing around the invisible barrier.

 

[Kichwas]

Whoever goes first will complete their full round action first and beat the other person to the Source.

Exactly.

But as well... it's also shown in the books that no matter how fast you are if the other person has already embraced the source before you 'arrive' to the battle then you're toast...

So it does always take some time to embrace no matter who you are.

 

[Femerus the Gnecro]

But as well... it's also shown in the books that no matter how fast you are if the other person has already embraced the source before you 'arrive' to the battle then you're toast...

Oh, I totally agree with you here... the smartest way to avoid the issue is simply to embrace the source before combat begins. The problem is when two people who aren't expecting a confrontation end up face to face... I don't think that initiative adequitely represents the variables involved in such an encounter. For instance, since embracing is a full round action, then weaving can only take place at the beginning of the next round. If, however, years of practice have allowed a channeler to embrace as a move equivalent or free action, then they will have a definite advantage in combats involving the one power. In the case of the forsaken or other extremely powerful channelers (high level characters included) I think this is a realistic situation that initiative doesn't quite address.

So it does always take some time to embrace no matter who you are.

Yes, but I think it's too simplistic to assume that every single channeler, without exception, does it in exactly six seconds.

-Femerus

 

[Florin]

Please keep in mind that a round is up to 6 seconds. In fact, the SRD says that anything that "can reasonably be done within 6 seconds" can be done in a round. So, round really don't have a set size, they are just limited to 6 seconds or less. They are supposed to be abstract, like hit points.

The fact that embracing is a full-round action is more for balance than to say that it takes six seconds to do so. It gives the non-channy types a chance to get a shot in before getting wrapped up with Arms of Air.