What's the point of the Eldritch Knight PrC?
- Thread starter philreed
- Start date
I'm greedy like that.Patryn of Elvenshae
First Post
Because you get higher hit dice and better caster levels / spells than you would if you went Ftr / Wzd / Ftr / Wzd / Ftr / Wzd ...
drnuncheon
Explorer
philreed said:
Interesting no, useful yes - it's just like the Mystic Theurge but for Fighter/Wizards. It provides a starting point for designing more flavorful fighting casters, and it could be used to spackle in the gaps when playing a more flavorful fighter/caster such as a Spellsword.
J
Archibald Theocliste
First Post
d6 HD are nice and a better BAB can help a lot with ranged or touch spells.
But I agree that I find the Eldricht Knight bland, soulless... I also fear that even if it initially wasn't designed as a super munchkin tool, he can pose a problem when used in a combo with other PrCs (like the Wizard 6/Fighter 1/Spellsword 3/Eldricht Knight 10 combo where you end up with BAB +17, cast spell like a 17th lvl wizard, and wear an armor too...woot ! Would you like an Arcane Strike with that ?)
EDIT - 3 new messages between the moment I hit "reply" and the moment I hit "submit reply"... I feel slow..... so slow.............
But I agree that I find the Eldricht Knight bland, soulless... I also fear that even if it initially wasn't designed as a super munchkin tool, he can pose a problem when used in a combo with other PrCs (like the Wizard 6/Fighter 1/Spellsword 3/Eldricht Knight 10 combo where you end up with BAB +17, cast spell like a 17th lvl wizard, and wear an armor too...woot ! Would you like an Arcane Strike with that ?)
EDIT - 3 new messages between the moment I hit "reply" and the moment I hit "submit reply"... I feel slow..... so slow.............
Last edited:
wingsandsword
Legend
The Eldritch Knight is much like the Mystic Theurge and the Cerebromancer from the XPH, it exists to flesh out an archetype from prior versions of D&D that wasn't well represented in 3.0, the Fighter-Mage in the case of the Eldritch Knight.
In prior versions of AD&D, you could be a multiclass Fighter/Mage and go up in both classes simultaneously, which meant you paid extra XP but you got much better weapon selection, attack rolls, and some better saving throws. However, with the multiclassing system of 3.x, this isn't practical.
So characters that formerly were well trained swordsmen and could cast arcane spells almost as well as a wizard in 2e now found themselves able to be good swordsmen, or good wizards, or poor at both.
The Eldritch Knight thus trades out a level of spellcasting (and the level you had to get All Martial Weapons Proficiency), the Wizard bonus feats and some of the Wizard's spell selection for a better BAB. Meaning you are a little worse than a fighter of your level in attacks (and you don't get all the feats) and you're a little behind the curve on spellcasting.
In prior versions of AD&D, you could be a multiclass Fighter/Mage and go up in both classes simultaneously, which meant you paid extra XP but you got much better weapon selection, attack rolls, and some better saving throws. However, with the multiclassing system of 3.x, this isn't practical.
So characters that formerly were well trained swordsmen and could cast arcane spells almost as well as a wizard in 2e now found themselves able to be good swordsmen, or good wizards, or poor at both.
The Eldritch Knight thus trades out a level of spellcasting (and the level you had to get All Martial Weapons Proficiency), the Wizard bonus feats and some of the Wizard's spell selection for a better BAB. Meaning you are a little worse than a fighter of your level in attacks (and you don't get all the feats) and you're a little behind the curve on spellcasting.
Kalendraf
Explorer
I was recently looking at this PrC. In my case, I was looking for something for a Bard-archer stlye. My assessment was that this PrC was not worth it for a bard.
What the Eldritch Knight gains (+1 BAB/level, extra feat, good fort saves) isn't worth what a bard has to give up (1 level of spellcasting, good dex & will saves, 6+skill points/level, song progression) in order to take it.
As a previous poster mentioned, it seems primarily tailored for a Fighter/Wizard or a Fighter/Sorcerer. IMHO, the easiest way to evaluate and compare it seems to be to keep spellcasting levels pretty close, so I'll try comparing a Fighter5/Wizard15 vs. a Fighter4/Wizard6/EK10.
Spellcaster level: 15 for both
Skills: Equal points, slightly different class choices
BAB: F/W has +12 BAB. EK version has +17 BAB
Saves: F/W has +9/+6/+10. EK has +13/+6/+9. Slight advantage toward EK, I guess.
Feats: F/W has 3 bonus fighter feats and 3 bonus wizard feats. EK has 4 bonus fighter feats and 1 bonus wizard feat. 1 less feat overall for the EK so this is a disadvantage.
Hit dice: F/W will have 5d10 + 15d4 (avg = 65 hp). EK version has 4d10 + 6d4 + 10d6 (avg = 72 hp). Advantage for EK.
So for that example, the EK version winds up with a significantly higher BAB (+5 is essentially an entire extra attack!), and somewhat better hit points, but trades a feat and some other minor mixing of saves and skills for it. Comparisons like this at other levels of fighter/wizard will no doubt vary quite a bit.
On the other hand, some would argue that a Fighter5/Wizard15 is already sub-optimal, so making comparisons with it aren't very valid. So make of it what you will...
What the Eldritch Knight gains (+1 BAB/level, extra feat, good fort saves) isn't worth what a bard has to give up (1 level of spellcasting, good dex & will saves, 6+skill points/level, song progression) in order to take it.
As a previous poster mentioned, it seems primarily tailored for a Fighter/Wizard or a Fighter/Sorcerer. IMHO, the easiest way to evaluate and compare it seems to be to keep spellcasting levels pretty close, so I'll try comparing a Fighter5/Wizard15 vs. a Fighter4/Wizard6/EK10.
Spellcaster level: 15 for both
Skills: Equal points, slightly different class choices
BAB: F/W has +12 BAB. EK version has +17 BAB
Saves: F/W has +9/+6/+10. EK has +13/+6/+9. Slight advantage toward EK, I guess.
Feats: F/W has 3 bonus fighter feats and 3 bonus wizard feats. EK has 4 bonus fighter feats and 1 bonus wizard feat. 1 less feat overall for the EK so this is a disadvantage.
Hit dice: F/W will have 5d10 + 15d4 (avg = 65 hp). EK version has 4d10 + 6d4 + 10d6 (avg = 72 hp). Advantage for EK.
So for that example, the EK version winds up with a significantly higher BAB (+5 is essentially an entire extra attack!), and somewhat better hit points, but trades a feat and some other minor mixing of saves and skills for it. Comparisons like this at other levels of fighter/wizard will no doubt vary quite a bit.
On the other hand, some would argue that a Fighter5/Wizard15 is already sub-optimal, so making comparisons with it aren't very valid. So make of it what you will...
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