What's the Best Fix for Power Attack?

[airwalkrr]

Before I begin, let me say that the purpose of this thread is not argue whether or not Power Attack needs fixing. The presumption is that if you are in the House Rules forum reading a thread on fixing Power Attack, then you believe Power Attack either needs to be fixed or could stand some fixing. Either way, comments such as "PA isn't broken ur sooooo stoopid" are not welcome. Consequently, there is no option on the poll for "PA doesn't need fixing." If you are of that ilk and can't help but post without arguing the point, please post elsewhere. That said, on to the thread.

There are a number of oft-cited quick fixes to Power Attack. Some of them are more common than others, and some seem to be more popular. Suppose you were playing or running a campaign and there was only ONE such change to Power Attack. If there were, which change would you prefer the most (vote in the poll) and why (post in the thread)?

The options are elaborated below since poll options are limited to 100 characters.

1. Power Attack is capped at -5 penalty to hit much like Combat Expertise. An Improved Power Attack Feat is available with requirements similar to Improved Combat Expertise (Str 13, Power Attack, base attack bonus +6) that has a similar effect of allowing you to PA up to your BAB.

2. Two-handed weapon wielders benefit on a 1 for 1.5 basis from Power Attack. For example a -4 to hit when using a greatsword or a longsword in two hans results in +6 to damage.

3. Power Attack is a static penalty with a static bonus (ala Neverwinter Nights). Power Attack has the same prerequisites, but only one penalty option, -5 to hit for +5 to damage (or +10 if wielding a two-handed weapon).

4. Power Attack allows you to exchange a static to hit penalty for bonus damage dice. A medium creature can take a -5 penalty to hit and get +1d8 points of damage or +2d6 when wiedling a two-handed weapon. The benefit of the feat otherwise scales as Powerful Charge.

5. Bonus damage from Power Attack is simply treated like bonus dice damage. It is never multiplied on a critical hit.

6. Perhaps I missed some other fairly popular option. If so, feel free to enlighten me.

 

[Li Shenron]

6. Perhaps I missed some other fairly popular option. If so, feel free to enlighten me.

Definitely not "popular", but still:

IMO it needs to fixes: it is too powerful for 2H weapons, so the bonus must be lowered a bit, and it is useless for light weapons so a bonus must be given for them as well.

For simplicity, I prefer not to have half-bonuses, so I'll use whole bonuses.

The result is "Power Attacks gives +1 dmg bonus for every -1 to attack, with all weapons".

 

[3d6]

I would change Power Attack in two ways: first, every -1 penalty suffered on attack rolls would grant a +2 bonus to damage rolls, regardless of the weapon used, and second, the maximum allowed penalty would be -5 (for a +10 damage bonus).

 

[fuindordm]

I hadn't seen the dice idea before, and it's a good one.

How about this:

one-handed weapons: Each -2 to hit gives +1d4 damage.
two-handed weapons: Each -2 to hit gives +1d6 damage.

The penalty to hit cannot be greater than your BAB.

Power attack does not work on objects.

 

[FireLance]

Other. I'd prefer a fixed attack penalty, but a damage bonus that scales with level or some measure of combat skill (the example below uses fighter feats, which are defined as feats that a fighter can select as bonus feats), but not as quickly as the current maximum of 2 points per level.

POWER ATTACK [Fighter]

Prerequisite: Str 13

Benefit: On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may decide to take a -2 penalty on all attack rolls to gain a bonus on your melee damage rolls. With weapons that you wield with two hands, you gain a +4 bonus to damage, +1 for every 3 fighter feats that you possess. With weapons that you wield with one hand, you gain a +2 bonus to damage, +1 for every 6 fighter feats that you possess. With light weapons, you gain a +1 bonus to damage, +1 for every 9 fighter feats that you possess. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn.

An unarmed strike is treated as if it was a weapon that you wield with one hand. If you attack with both ends of a double weapon, each end is treated as if it was a weapon that you wield with one hand. If you attack with only one end of a double weapon that you wield with two hands, you treat it as if it was a weapon that you wield with two hands.

A weapon used with Weapon Finesse is treated as if it was of the next less advantageous category, so a spiked chain used with Weapon Finesse deals extra damage as if it was a weapon you wield in one hand, and a rapier used with Weapon Finesse deals extra damage as if it was a light weapon. A light weapon used with Weapon Finesse still deals extra damage as if it was a light weapon.

Special: A barbarian can add the number of times he can rage per day to the number of fighter feats that he possesses to determine the effectiveness of this feat.​

 

[FireLance]

A few additional notes about the revised feat I posted above.

1. I would throw in a Power Attack option for characters without the feat, similar to fighting defensively. The trade-off would be a -4 penalty to attacks for a +3/+2/+1 bonus depending on the weapon and how it is wielded (whether it is light, wielded in one or two hands, with or without Weapon Finesse, as above).

2. Fighters potentially get the most benefit from Power Attack due to the large number of fighter feats they can get. A human fighter with a two-handed weapon could get a +10 bonus on his damage rolls at 18th level (for a -2 penalty on attack rolls) if he has used all 18 of his feats for fighter feats. In comparison, an 18th-level barbarian with a two-handed weapon could have +8 if he has at least 7 fighter feats, and an 18th-level paladin could have +6 if he has at least 6 fighter feats.

3. The feat is deliberately worded to remove any ambiguity about what damage bonus to use for a lance wielded in one hand while mounted, using the interpretation I favor, of course.

 

[Pierson_Lowgal]

My gaming group has used both options 'A' and 'B'. Option 'B' works much better. Option 'A' works well for the monsters, at least through 12th level, but it just felt wrong for players. Option 'B' is a nice softening approach for two-handers that doesn't shift the balance so far that they are obviously worse than one hander & shield.

'A' Power Attack capped like Combat Expertise.
'B' Two-handed multiplier of x1.5.

 

[Sadrik]

I think identifying where PA is broken first is the best way to "fix" it. No one can find the best fix without identifying what they are fixing.

Here are some power attack combos that in my mind make PA broken:
1. Quickened true strike spell
2. Wraithstrike spell
3. Shock trooper feat
4. Leap attack feat
5. Frenzied berserker PrC
6. The touch attack power from book of nine swords
7. Surprise (opponent flat-footed)
8. others??? please add them

To me by looking at these it seems that the scaling to however high you want is the problem. If you are playing higher than 10th level the damage is obscene when using any of these combos. So is power attack broken because PA combo with touch attacks and similar abilities? Yes. So again capping the damage in some way is the fix. Either that or fix touch attacks and I think that is a lot more work.

I like:
-4 to attack for +8 strength

This automatically scales with the weapon you are using and is fundamentally pretty easy for people to grasp. It puts the power back into power attack.

Then improved pa would be:
-8 to attack for +16 strength.

Prerequisites could be BAB +4 and BAB +8. PA should be able to come at 1st level though so reduce them to +1 and +4.

 

[Plane Sailing]

The result is "Power Attacks gives +1 dmg bonus for every -1 to attack, with all weapons".

This is my solution too - I think if it was in the poll it would be a pretty common answer. You want to edit it in, Airwalkrr?

 

[Moon-Lancer]

maybe its just me, but i dont think power attack is broken, so I chose other. core fighters cant suck while while power attack is broken. Its just silly. I think the poll is misleading becuse it dosent account for power attack possibly not being broken.