Whats the 2nd most important attribute for a Sorcerer
- Thread starter smetzger
- Start date
Darklone
Registered User
Comparing our nimble elven sorcerer with the sturdy bug not very agile gnomen sorcerer....
The gnome wins. Since he's not always playing ghost when a fireball hits him.
We got a human sorcerer with greataxe in one of our groups. Lowlevel. 11 hitpoints at lvl1. (thanks to Toughness feat).
That high Con helps a LOT. He's nearly as good as the fighters for the first few levels, better in AC and True Strike combined with Power Attack and charges ... Huhm. Well. His Int and Wis suck, though.
The gnome wins. Since he's not always playing ghost when a fireball hits him.
We got a human sorcerer with greataxe in one of our groups. Lowlevel. 11 hitpoints at lvl1. (thanks to Toughness feat).
That high Con helps a LOT. He's nearly as good as the fighters for the first few levels, better in AC and True Strike combined with Power Attack and charges ... Huhm. Well. His Int and Wis suck, though.
The thing about Constitution, is that the bonus is statistically more important for smaller hit dice. For example, a barbarian with 10 Con has an average of 6.5 hit points per level. With an 18 Con, he averages 10.5 hit points per level-about 60% more. A sorcerer with 10 Con has 2.5 hit points per level. But with an 18 Con, he has 6.5 hit points per level-a 160% increase.
Constitution, all the way. I don't know that I'd stoop to getting the toad, though.
Constitution, all the way. I don't know that I'd stoop to getting the toad, though.
Dr. Zoom
First Post
I agree with gamecat. I have found dex to be the best second choice for sorcerers and/or wizards. AC, ranged touch attacks for spells, ranged weapons or a weapon finessed dagger/club, reflex saves, initiative, and those dex based cross-class skills, all benefit from a good dex.
I think I have to go with Constitution, but it's a tough call between that and Dexterity. I'd go with Intelligence as #3 and Strength as #4.
Both CON and DEX give a bonus to a save, so that is mostly a wash unless your DM throws a lot of Evocation spells at you.
But, to me, the extra hit points are extremely important.
10th level opponent throws 10D6 Fireball at your 10th level Sorcerer or Wizard.
That's 35 points of damage against him where his average hit points at level 10 is 26.5 (i.e. 4 hits at level one) with a CON of 10.
If he misses the save, he is at -8 or -9 on average and about to die.
Having the 14 DEX will enable him to make the saving throw 10% more often, but that does not help a lot on those times when he rolls low on the save.
In other words, the bad guys will throw stuff at you often enough that sooner or later, you'll miss a save on something that does hit point damage.
With the extra CON (say for example 14 where you would have 20 more hit points in the example above), you can at least survive that. Without it, you might not.
With the extra DEX, you will take full damage less often (5% to 15% less often depending on the differences between your DEX and CON), but sooner or later you will still get smacked hard.
To me, surviving is more a matter of having options and continuing on than it is a matter of having that extra +1 or +2 to hit with a ranged touch attack that may or may not work (and the +1 or +2 will rarely matter depending on the roll), or the bonus to AC. Even at one hit point, my Wizards can usually attempt something. At -1 hit points, they cannot.
But then again, I always create defensive Wizards as opposed to offensive ones, so YMMV.
Both CON and DEX give a bonus to a save, so that is mostly a wash unless your DM throws a lot of Evocation spells at you.
But, to me, the extra hit points are extremely important.
10th level opponent throws 10D6 Fireball at your 10th level Sorcerer or Wizard.
That's 35 points of damage against him where his average hit points at level 10 is 26.5 (i.e. 4 hits at level one) with a CON of 10.
If he misses the save, he is at -8 or -9 on average and about to die.
Having the 14 DEX will enable him to make the saving throw 10% more often, but that does not help a lot on those times when he rolls low on the save.
In other words, the bad guys will throw stuff at you often enough that sooner or later, you'll miss a save on something that does hit point damage.
With the extra CON (say for example 14 where you would have 20 more hit points in the example above), you can at least survive that. Without it, you might not.
With the extra DEX, you will take full damage less often (5% to 15% less often depending on the differences between your DEX and CON), but sooner or later you will still get smacked hard.
To me, surviving is more a matter of having options and continuing on than it is a matter of having that extra +1 or +2 to hit with a ranged touch attack that may or may not work (and the +1 or +2 will rarely matter depending on the roll), or the bonus to AC. Even at one hit point, my Wizards can usually attempt something. At -1 hit points, they cannot.
But then again, I always create defensive Wizards as opposed to offensive ones, so YMMV.
Omegium
First Post
Con. Con is the most important stat in the game on average I think (ok, it is first choice for almost no class, but it's always in the top 3) and all my spellcasters had con as their second stat. And it is good for your saves, and compared to dex, on high lvl, a missed dex save often means a lot of damage, but a missed con save means death.
