What was the inspiration for the Twin Paradises/Bytopia?

[Alzrius]

A question for those who are greater fans of Planescape/the classical D&D planar structure than I:

What's the inspiration for the outer plane of Bytopia (aka the Twin Paradises in pre-Planescape materials)? Most of the other planes (with the possible exception of the Outlands/Concordant Opposition) are fairly obvious where they come from, or are at least easily looked up. Heaven, Olympus, Pandemonium, the Happy Hunting Grounds - all of these have mythological, theological, and/or literary references that were clearly in Gary's mind when he created the planar structure...but I can't find any references to a "twin paradises" outside of D&D itself.

Does anyone have any idea what the inspiration was (if any) for that particular outer plane?

 

[Samloyal23]

It seems to represent some kind of benevolent balance or harmony. Aside from that I do not know...

 

[DMZ2112]

The prevailing theory is that it has ties to the strong themes of duality in Finnish or Slavic mythology, but it seems like the true derivation may have died with Gary.

For my part I've always kind of thought its geography was swapped with Elysium's -- the two facing layers seem on the surface to be a good metaphor for the peaceful interchange between law and chaos in absolute good.

 

[Alzrius]

The prevailing theory is that it has ties to the strong themes of duality in Finnish or Slavic mythology, but it seems like the true derivation may have died with Gary.

Yeah...

This is one of those questions I wish I'd asked him on one of the old "Gary Gygax Q&A" threads back in the day. Instead, I asked him about his appearance on Futurama.

 

[darkseraphim]

Hi there, Paradise = Eden, but Gary was always careful to cloak references of faith too close to home (devas instead of angels, etc.). Consider this quote from the poem The Garden, by Andrew Marvell, colleague of Milton:

Such was that happy garden-state,
While man there walked without a mate:
After a place so pure and sweet,
What other help could yet be meet!
But 'twas beyond a mortal's share
To wander solitary there:
Two paradises 'twere in one
To live in Paradise alone.

I think it may also reference Milton's Paradise Lost (1667) and Paradise Regained (1671).

 

[the Jester]

Hi there, Paradise = Eden, but Gary was always careful to cloak references of faith too close to home (devas instead of angels, etc.).

Devas come straight from Indian mythology IIRC.

 

[Samloyal23]

Hi there, Paradise = Eden, but Gary was always careful to cloak references of faith too close to home (devas instead of angels, etc.). Consider this quote from the poem The Garden, by Andrew Marvell, colleague of Milton:

Such was that happy garden-state,
While man there walked without a mate:
After a place so pure and sweet,
What other help could yet be meet!
But 'twas beyond a mortal's share
To wander solitary there:
Two paradises 'twere in one
To live in Paradise alone.

I think it may also reference Milton's Paradise Lost (1667) and Paradise Regained (1671).

I think you nailed it, but someone should ask one of the bashers on the Planescape development team...