D&D 5E What is the Deal with the Twilight Cleric?

[CleverNickName]

I didn't want to derail the other thread, so I moved this comment over to its own space. Because I'm a gentleman.

Here's the quote:

1. Anything official goes, but I keep my right to rebalance something that I see as completely gamebreaking, IE; I have changed GWM/SS -5/+10 to +1 str/dex before it was cool by WotC
also twilight cleric

This isn't the first time I've read this about the Twilight Cleric. There are several threads out here on EN World that just casually mention the Twilight Cleric being "broken" or "unfair," and it's usually in a casual, matter-of-fact, everyone-knows-and-understands-this tone. And since this is the Internet, I'm always dubious of those claims.

My alternate 5E gaming group (not my no-spellcasters group) is going to be running a Ravenloft campaign, and one of the players has chosen to play a Twilight Cleric. This player is usually more interested in roleplaying than game mechanics, so when he says he chose this class because he thought it was the best fit for a gothic horror setting, I believe him. But...well, you've seen the same comments that I have. Heck, you might have even written some of them! As @Horwath mentioned above, this class is apparently gamebreaking. Why? What is the deal with the TLC?

Twilight Cleric: overpowered and unplayable? or tempest in a teapot?

 

[TiQuinn]

For the most part, it boiled down to it's 2nd level ability that gave temp HP each round for every creature in a 30 foot radius or the ability to negate a charm or fear effect.

Mort had a good post that back here D&D 5E - How on earth is this balanced?! Twilight cleric, more in-play evidence that summed up the big issues with it. No concentration needed, it's a low level ability that really outclassed other similar abilities at that level.

Also strictly for me, I just disliked the theme of the entire subclass. I didn't understand how "twilight" played into this classes abilities. I know that's very arbitrary of me, but if you want to sell me on something, tell me what the class or ability is and why it exists. Very strong healing magic plus flight plus a pretty strong custom spell list on a cleric of twilight. It felt like a grab bag.

 

[jgsugden]

There are a lot of threads on this topic over the years, but the short version:

Bonus Spells: Solid, but not game breaking. Access to Greater Invisibility while you have a flight ability, however, can be game breaking.

1st/3rd: 300 feet of Darkvision for the party can be gamebreaking in some situations. Additionally, advantage on initiative for 1 PC is strong, although less so in 2024 do to the surprise rules overlapping. Still, together this can be gamebreaking.

2nd/3rd: Granting 1d6 Temporary HP to all allies that end a turn within 30 is a lot of healing+ going on. It is like giving your allies a free 20 hps in most combats. This is a huge benefit.

6th: 3 to 6 free flight spells is a lot of flight. This is a huge benefit - especially as it does not require concentration to achieve. Flight, by itself, can render some enemies meaningless.

17th: Not really that amazing and only available at high level, but a decent level buff.

In the end, if the party and PC do not build around these abilities it ends up being a strong, but not broken, subclass. If, however, the PCs focus on benefitting from that extreme long distance darkvision, the bonus health, and the flying cleric ... it can be gross.

 

[Clint_L]

They have a combination of abilities that make them extremely strong at low levels in particular. I played one through the first part of Rime of the Frost Maiden, and it felt broken OP. The shared darkvision alone makes the class strong, and access to heavy armour is always great on a cleric. Vigilant blessing means that one party member always has advantage on initiative checks. They also have a really nice spell selection.

But it's the channel divinity (Twilight Sanctuary) that makes them overwhelmingly strong at low levels - the 30' radius centred on the cleric, the one minute duration (no concentration), and the fact that you are in heavy armour and can easily move into melee just provides a huge damage buffer for your entire party all for one initial action. By high levels, this isn't as big a deal (though still pretty amazing action economy), but at low levels - where most games are played - an extra D6 HP+level per character per round is very, very strong.

Edit: on average, this just about amounts to each party member being able to shrug off one hit per round for the entire fight, and it can't be dispelled on concentration broken. For one initial action!

That said, you're playing Ravenloft and you might need it just to survive Death House if you are starting there!

 

[billd91]

There are a lot of threads on this topic over the years, but the short version:

Bonus Spells: Solid, but not game breaking. Access to Greater Invisibility while you have a flight ability, however, can be game breaking.

Always counting as having Leomund's tiny hut prepared means they can always cast it as a ritual - expanding the number of classes who can cast that poorly balanced spell

2nd/3rd: Granting 1d6 Temporary HP to all allies that end a turn within 30 is a lot of healing+ going on. It is like giving your allies a free 20 hps in most combats. This is a huge benefit.

Even better - it's 1d6+cleric level.

 

[sevenbastard]

I think people who worship a teen vampire novel would be baned from game anyway.

 

[TiQuinn]

They have a combination of abilities that make them extremely strong at low levels in particular. I played one through the first part of Rime of the Frost Maiden, and it felt broken OP. The shared darkvision alone makes the class strong, and access to heavy armour is always great on a cleric. Vigilant blessing means that one party member always has advantage on initiative checks. They also have a really nice spell selection.

Yes, that's the other part of it - individually these abilities are all very good. In aggregate, this is just a crazy subclass. How many abilities allow you to share the main benefit with the entire party? How many subclasses are just stacked across all aspects of its design (everything front loaded, all armor/weapon profs, strong spell list, strong abilities)?

There's just no trade off here.

 

[Clint_L]

I think people who worship a teen vampire novel would be baned from game anyway.

To the contrary, if you are going to play a Twilight Cleric, I think playing them as a mopey teenager should be mandatory!

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It’s not just a matter of being too powerful, there is also the issue that the cleric rolls a die on the turn of every other player as well as their own, so they have more to do than the other players.

 

[Willie the Duck]

This isn't the first time I've read this about the Twilight Cleric. There are several threads out here on EN World that just casually mention the Twilight Cleric being "broken" or "unfair," and it's usually in this casual, matter-of-fact, everyone-knows-and-understands-this tone. And since this is the Internet, I'm always dubious of those claims

Let's level-set. This is not 3E Pun-Pun, or Ice Assassins and Demiplanes, or Find City nukes/commoner black holes or other things which, if allowed, end your campaign (or all normality within it). It's not even 3E Hulking Hurler/5E nuclear wizard madness that is easily defeated but still takes one aspect like damage and throws the norms completely out the window. I don't even know if it's a strictly-best character choice. It's more like AD&D 2e's bladesinger kit*, in that it is an almost-strictely-better option.
*the2E bladesinger kit as an elf-only kit for multiclass F/MUs which was a few RP restrictions, plus mechanical benefit. Which seems OP, but doesn't change that in 2E (where they can't cast in armor), F/MU are not some kind of runaway uber-class.

Clerics are nice in 5e.2014. They are fairly hardy, have some nice tricks -- Bless, Healing Word, Revivify, Lesser/Greater Restoration, and a Spirit Guardians/Spiritual Weapon combo that is good enough that in tiers 2&3 it ends up being a go-to. Most notably, since OOC healing is so ubiquitous, you don't end up having to be mostly a heal-battery for everyone else like in several other versions of D&D. They aren't usually anyone's idea of the most-powerful or most-broken class (or even feature in many most-broken builds, etc.).

A Twilight Cleric does not change this. They are still going to go about doing their own thing, choosing to cantrip-attack or mace-swing or just dodge and SG/SW while throwing out the occasional Healing Word to whack-a-mole a party member back up and so on. They are simply going to do it with some perks that seem, almost strictly speaking, completely better than any other cleric subtype. In addition, while none of these abilities are just plain game-breaking*, they really do seem outside the bounds the rest of the game normally sets -- darkvision tends to be given out in 60'-120' increments, and out of the blue this one is 300'. Spells like Aid or Heroism tend to give out 5/SL hp once or spellcasting mod/round (to 1-3 allies), but this one gives out 1d6 + cleric level... to all allies (only) within 30' (which is what a paladin's radius becomes at 18th level)... as well as negates the frightened condition. *Outside of a really contrived sniper-with-300'-darkvision scenario, you do not win because of this -- you simply come out of fights you probably would have won anyways with significantly less loss and perhaps significantly fewer resources expended.

Add to that that no one really knows why they chose the domain of 'twilight' (were people clamoring for this? what existing gods were not well-served by the PHB domains but are salvaged by this? etc.), and it just kind of comes off like they were deliberately pumping up the cleric power potential a notch. That's certainly how a lot of people saw the hexblade in the previous book, but at the very least it was pretty obvious that bladelock-pact warlocks were not great out of the box*. Clerics were... not in need of a retro-salvage operation, or whatever might be gleaned from this. *and multiclassing was optional, so I guess the consequences of hexblade dips on bard and paladin builds was a consequence a DM had to sign on for.

So, yeah. Twilight clerics are just this weird outlier boost to a class that didn't seem to need it, using parts that feel custom built (so it doesn't feel accidental), and without a clear reason for why they were deemed desired (beyond that new content was wanted in general). They do not break the game over their knee, but they do throw challenge calculations out of whack. Mostly they just seem like a really bizarre choice -- like, if you simply wanted to boost a class, or include a new must-have item to enhance sales of your new book, there are ways to do it that would seem to make sense. So this one remains a head-scratcher.