What is a Wound? An attempt to bridge the divide.

[Hussar]

I've seen all sorts of hit point threads. They come and go. But, I think one of the basic issues is that everyone has a different idea of what, exactly a "wound" is. If we can pin down a fairly agreeable definition of what a wound is, then I think we can move forward.

I'll start with what I don't think a "wound" as D&D defines it, is. If, in real life, a cat scratches me, I have a red line, maybe some blood drawn, but that's about it. That is not a wound, to me. It hurts, it might be a bit annoying, but, it would take thousands of these to actually be life threatening.

Same goes for bumps and bruises. I'm quite tall. I live in a country where they feel that about 5 feet is an appropriate height for a doorway. Which means I tend to whack my melon on a fairly regular basis. This might explain my posting habits, I'm not sure.

But, in any case, again, while it hurts when I do it, and I might even have a bump on my noggin for a bit, I'm still not going to call that a wound. It's not life threatening, I could do it repeatedly before it would actually start being life threatening. I do NOT suggest any one try.

To me, a wound has to be something that is debilitating in some way. Some years ago, I fell down and rammed a spike through my hand. Now, not life threatening, but definitely a wound. I could not use that hand for some time.

Which is why I think I have such a difficult time with the whole HP=wounds argument. There's no way someone could take that many wounds, as I define the term. You'd be seriously hurt if you took eight to ten actual wounds in a fight. Again, as I define "wound".

Now, I think there are a number of people who would define my whacking my head on the doorway as a wound. Which does go a long way to explaining how every hit could be a wound. Sure. But, if that's true, then the whole 1 day healing thing shouldn't be a problem. Yup, I took lots of minor wounds - but, since they're all just scrapes, bumps and bruises, none of them are debilitating and none of them really affect my ability to take more bumps, bruises and scrapes. In game, I might still look banged up, but, on my character sheet, I have full hit points.

So, could you define "wound" for me?

 

[Argyle King]

First I will say that I'm not always a huge fan of the abstract nature of D&D HP.


I feel that HP should measure your ability to sustain injury.

With that in mind, I would say I define a wound as an injury which causes severe bleeding, crippling of a wound, and other such things. You might be able to heal the injury (HP loss), but the wound would still remain until treated and/or repaired.

In some cases things such as disease, overexertion,and etc might cause injury without damage.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I'll give it a shot. I'm pretty athletic, played ball in college, so I'll use that as a familiar ground. I pretty much kept my knees skinned up, such that I still have scars around my knees, and I still can't grow hair on my left calf. A really bad strawberry is a wound. It hurts like hell, and the scabbing makes it such that you can't bend your leg very well. That's a wound. It's not life threatening, but it makes everyday things like climbing stairs difficult, much less actually kneeling. A bad blister on your ankle or heel will make even walking difficult. That's a wound. In D&D terms, these are similar to wounds a pc would get, though through a different mechanism. A gash in your leg, a mace to the ankle that doesn't quite break the bone. Get hit a dozen times, you have a dozen of these for your body to heal. They hurt, they make things you'd ordinarily do with ease difficult. And they do not heal overnight.

 

[Hussar]

In some cases things such as disease, overexertion,and etc might cause injury without damage.

For the moment, I think it might be constructive to ignore these issues. I totally, 100% agree that there are other systems that we can use for things that aren't directly related to someone sticking something pointy into our soft and tender bits. Temp HP, disease tracks, etc. Yeah, those are probably better at handling the more corner cases that will come up often enough that we should have some system in place, but, not often enough that they need to be rolled into the HP mechanics.

 

[Hussar]

/snip

They hurt, they make things you'd ordinarily do with ease difficult. And they do not heal overnight.

There's the rub though - no pun intended after the strawberry reference. None of the things you call wounds make anything more difficult, other than taking more wounds. D&D lacks any death spiral.

How do you balance these things in you mind? If a wound makes things more difficult to do (I agree with this interpretation btw), and D&D has no death spiral, how does a character with hit point loss actually have a wound as you've defined it?

 

[JRRNeiklot]

How do you balance these things in you mind? If a wound makes things more difficult to do (I agree with this interpretation btw), and D&D has no death spiral, how does a character with hit point loss actually have a wound as you've defined it?

Because he has less hit points. It's more difficult to survive a fight. No one wound is bad enough to bring him down, but they add up. He's slower to react, he can't quite block that blow to the left, etc. This is represented simply by hit points, otherwise we'd have a dozen different conditions to track.

 

[CleverNickName]

'Wounds' are the opposite of Hit Points. That is why the definition of one will always depend on the other.

 

[Argyle King]

Because he has less hit points. It's more difficult to survive a fight. No one wound is bad enough to bring him down, but they add up. He's slower to react, he can't quite block that blow to the left, etc. This is represented simply by hit points, otherwise we'd have a dozen different conditions to track.

I'm not so sure I agree with that. As far as I can tell, my D&D character functions exactly the same no matter if I have 1 HP or 100 HP. The bloodied condition in 4th Edition (and having things interact with that state) was an attempt at giving a little more meaning to HP loss. I'd personally be fine with adding more granularity there, but I know I'm in the minority when it comes to the D&D crowd.

I think part of the problem is that HP needs to be abstract in D&D because of the abstract and static nature of AC. When the enemy attacks me, I usually have no option other than to just stand there and wait to see if I'm hit or not hit. HP needs to be inflated because (I feel) D&D assumes you get hit.

In other systems, HP might mean something more tangible, but that is coupled with those systems not assuming you will get hit. I don't just stand there and hope the enemy misses. Instead, I can try to get out of the way with a dodge or raise my shield with a block or parry with my sword. I prefer that, but I'm well aware that "is not D&D" and it probably never will be.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

I think defining a wound is best done by separating it from hit points; and then reflecting upon what one becomes in relation to the other. Hit points are all the things that stop you from being wounded. A wound is the result of what happens when the hit points don't work (a critical hit bypassing or just plain running out of hit points).

Therefore a wound is not the bumps, scrapes and bruises, or the physical wearing down of a character. It thus becomes an injury that should penalize a character in some way. The severity of this penalty should be in relation to the severity of the wound. It may be as slight as a momentary penalty until the end of the character's turn or round. It may be as severe as disadvantage to every roll and no strength, dexterity or constitution checks until the wound is "healed".

The crucial part here is that despite being wounded, the character can still regain and use hit points (although a fatigued character might have their hit points capped at half; and an exhausted character have their hit points capped at a quarter). A wound does not have to incapacitate a character (and certainly does not need to push them to unconsciousness). The important thing is that physical wounds are treated completely separate to hit points. That way, wounds can be healed through natural, mundane and magical means at a rate comfortable for the group. Hit points however are left to be restored as rapidly as the group desires.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I'm not so sure I agree with that. As far as I can tell, my D&D character functions exactly the same no matter if I have 1 HP or 100 HP.

At 1 hp, he can't fight as well, because a lucky hit from a goblin can drop him. At 100 hp, it can't. Therefore, he does not function the same.