What exactly is a "death effect"

[Vexed]

I have a someone in my group who insists anything that would result in a character making a save, and the failure resulting in death would be a death effect. The examples I have reviewed in the DMG all pertain to magical effects. Opinions on this? Is anything that results in "save or die" a death effect?

 

[Kai Lord]

For the most part. Keep in mind that failed saves that kill characters simply due to HP loss don't qualify as Death Attacks, ie failing (or even succeeding) a Reflex save against a Fireball and getting killed. Obnoxious sig, BTW.

 

[James McMurray]

A death effect is any special ability which is labelled as such. Additionally, any spell with the [Death] descriptor. Everything else is not a death effect.

 

[hong]

A death effect is any special ability which is labelled as such. Additionally, any spell with the [Death] descriptor. Everything else is not a death effect.

Example: disintegrate is not a death effect, although it's a fairly notorious "instakill" spell.

 

[Tempuswolf]

What about death from a massive damage failed save and the assassin's death attack? Would you enforce the rule "no raise dead vs. death effect" against these two attacks?

 

[0-hr]

What about death from a massive damage failed save and the assassin's death attack? Would you enforce the rule "no raise dead vs. death effect" against these two attacks?

Read the DMG section on those two attacks. Does either one say that they are a death effect? Is either one a spell with the [Death] descriptor?

 

[0-hr]

A quick search of the SRD came up with these Death Effects:

Arrow of Slaying
Cleric death domain ability
Circle of Death
Destruction
Finger of Death
Power Word Kill
Slay Living

 

[Numion]

Doesn't it seem odd to anyone that a succesful Vorpal blade attack isn't a death effect? IMHO it should be.

 

[AuraSeer]

Doesn't it seem odd to anyone that a succesful Vorpal blade attack isn't a death effect? IMHO it should be.

A death effect is something that uses the Power Of Death Itself (cue spooky music!) to kill the target. Slay Living is such an effect, as is Power Word: Kill. They simply "turn off" the target's life force like a switch. An autopsy would show a victim to be in perfect health, except for being dead.

A vorpal strike is not a death effect, it just cuts your head off. It's true that most humanoids tend to die rather quickly after that happens, but that's not really the sword's fault.

Another way to look at it: death effects only affect things that are alive. If you cast Slay Living on a zombie, the spell fizzles, because the zombie has no life force for it to affect. However, a vorpal sword would quite happily sever the zombie's head, because all the sword does is the head-chopping part. Maybe the target immediately dies, or maybe it continues on its merry way with its head off; either way, the sword couldn't care less.

 

[Mr Fidgit]

wouldn't an easier way to describe a 'death effect' be: whatever is affected by the spell Death Ward? ("The subject is immune to all death spells and magical death effects. This spell does not protect against other sorts of attacks, such as hit point loss, poison, petrification, or other effects even if they might be lethal.")


btw, i recently made a list of all the spell with descriptors here:
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=446369#post446369

so here's all the spells with the 'Death' descriptor:

Circle of Death - Sor/Wiz 6
Death Knell - Clr 2, Death 2 (also Evil)
Destruction - Clr 7, Death 7
Finger of Death - Drd 8, Sor/Wiz 7
Power Word, Kill - Sor/Wiz 9, War 9
Slay Living - Clr 5, Death 5
Wail of the Banshee - Death 9, Sor/Wiz 9 (also Sonic)


and, of course, arrows of slaying and the Death domain ability
are clearly defined as 'death effects'