D&D 5E What do spellcasting stats represent

[gyor]

People we're discussing this somewhere in another thread, but it was thread drift so I decided it deserved it's own thread.

To me for example the Clerics Wisdom represents Gnosis, becoming one with a God.

The Paladin's Charisma on the other had represents blind faith and certainty.

The Intelligence of the Wizard, Arcane Trickster, and Eldrich Knight represent book learning and memorization.

The Druids and Rangers Wisdom represent being in tune with the natural world around them.

Bard's Charisma represents skill as a proformer.

The Warlock's Charisma represents a seduction of the magical forces into compliance as well as negioation abilities.

The Sorceror's Charisma was harder until you realize most monsters use Charisma as the stay they use for innate spellcasting too. The question become why do monsters use charisma for magic?

I think it comes down to an instinctive response.

 

[Stalker0]

Honestly this only one thst never made sense was a warlock using cha instead of wis.

A paladin magic is conviction, paladins don't even have to pray to a god let say. Clerics connect to a higher power, and must be patiently be given strength.

But i feel warlocks are the same way, they must receive blessings from their patron similar to how a cleric gets them from a god

 

[TwoSix]

Those are good explanations; I would only say the better question is "What can spellcasting stats represent", not "what do spellcasting stats represent". I tend to believe the rationale for any character's abilities should be specific to the character.

 

[Wulffolk]

I house-rule spell-casting stats to make more sense to me.

Intelligence - logic, reason, memory (Wizard, Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster)
Wisdom - willpower, intuition, insight (Sorcerer, Druid, Ranger)
Charisma - magnetism, manipulation, presence (Cleric, Paladin)

Warlocks are a special case. I allow their relationship with their Patron to determine which ability to use.

I prefer to use Charisma for Clerics because their power comes from their connection to their God, and Charisma helps them to draw the attention of their God or to inspire faith in others. In a fantasy setting where gods are real and limited in power, the ability to attract their attention seems vital to having your prayers answered. Even in the real world priests rely upon their charisma to deliver services and inspire the faithful to donate money. In my experience Wisdom has almost nothing to do with faith, and it seems that the greater somebody's willpower or insight the less likely they are to become involved in organized religion. Of course, the previous statements are just my personal opinion biased by my complete lack of faith in anything divine. They are not intended to cause offense.

Ironically, Clerics and Paladins are some of my favorite characters to role-play. There is so much potential for story hooks and interesting social interactions

 

[Wiseblood]

I felt that the stats were where they belong. Sorcerer I could see as wisdom though. The cleric has to intuit the will of their deity or ask directly what does the god want they are servants.

I was thinking about magical power and charisma lately or more specifically about midichlorians and the force. As we in the real world often do the D&D mechanics are suffering from an attribution error. Charisma might not be the source of spellcasting power. Instead it is an expression of existing innate magical potential manifested by social strength. Or magic is inherently attracted to charisma and charismatic beings.

 

[Kobold Stew]

If you accept that part of Charisma is force of will, then sorcerers using charisma make sense. It's actually the warlock where, in my view, a strong case can be made for a wider range of stats.

Intelligence: the paradigmatic warlock (gaining power from a deal with a supernatural being), perhaps, is Doctor Faustus. In most of the versions I know, his learning and mental power (Intelligence) are what lead him to his pact.

Charisma: force of will, negotiation abilities, etc.

Wisdom: insight and intuition allow the warlock to forge connections with the supernatural being that ordinary people cannot.

 

[Stalker0]

It's actually the warlock where, in my view, a strong case can be made for a wider range of stats.

I like that idea.

Warlock Spellcasting: When a warlock first gains this ability, they may choose either Int, Wis, or Cha. This will determine their strength with warlock spells.

 

[Wulffolk]

Another option would be to make spell-casting it's own separate stat. You could call it Power or Faith or Magic or whatever was appropriate to that character. This would make all spell-casting stats equal.

Since Wisdom and Charisma have other purposes they would still be ok if spell-casting did not rely upon them. Intelligence would need a perk, and I could see allowing characters an extra skill or tool or language for every point of Intelligence bonus, and these bonus skills could be chosen from out of class skills. This would encourage players to put points in Intelligence and not just dump it. Even Fighters could benefit from being smart.

 

[Yardiff]

Charisma is force of personality not force of will unless your changing it.

I guess you could consider this force of will...

Withstanding effects, such as possession, that would subsume your personality or hurl you to another plane of existence.

 

[Mephista]

People we're discussing this somewhere in another thread, but it was thread drift so I decided it deserved it's own thread.
The Paladin's Charisma on the other had represents blind faith and certainty.

The Sorceror's Charisma was harder until you realize most monsters use Charisma as the stay they use for innate spellcasting too. The question become why do monsters use charisma for magic?

Willpower. Charisma is the strength of will someone has to acopmlish something by pushing forwards. (mental strength). Paladins and Sorcerers are judging their magic because they're better at forcing their will upon the world than others.

Intelligence, of course, is raw info processing.

Wisdom reflects one's perception; this is used as resistance against many mental manipulations simply because you recognize an outside force is manipullating you, and it reflects druidic magic because "awareness of nature in order to commune" is a thing. Same thing with clerics - its all about being receptive to a higher power.

Warlock is a bit trickier. Originally, during the playtest, it was actually INT instead of CHA. However, that proved unpopular. People wanted the social warlock more than they wanted the intellectual warlock. That was the feedback - someone who negotiates for their power more. That's why its CHA.