D&D 5E What are your favourite fumble tables?
- Thread starter fil512
- Start date
My personal favorite is if you roll a 1 on an attack roll your attack misses, even if your attack bonus would have been high enough to hit anyways!
(Seriously though I don't like going overboard with nat 1 penalties because its arbitrarily more harsh to classes that use multiple attacks such as fighters or warlocks as compared to those who use single large attacks or saves)
(Seriously though I don't like going overboard with nat 1 penalties because its arbitrarily more harsh to classes that use multiple attacks such as fighters or warlocks as compared to those who use single large attacks or saves)
None.
It never made sense to me that a high level fighter, someone at the pinnacle of expertise should fumble far more often than a lowly commoner who can barely swing a sword. I had a DM once who loved critical misses and would regularly have my high level fighter lose his weapon or risk breaking it.
The same goes for critical hit tables. The same DM loved to roll a special d6 after a crit to see what damage was done, each face of the die showed an arm/leg/head/body. Limbs went flying, heads were lopped off on a regular basis. Then he would throw a ton of low level monsters that needed to crit to hit the fighter who would inevitably die because he'd roll "head" on his crit die. This was in a previous edition and I had a ring of regen, so he'd lose an arm/head and have to glue the appendage back on.
It was annoying, stupid, and not fun for anyone but the DM who took great joy at breaking one (highly magical, rare) sword after another and crippling/killing my fighter. I didn't game with him for long.
When I did try critical fumbles, I gave people a saving throw equal to 20 minus their level or 20 minus twice their level for warrior types (fighters, paladins, rangers). On a failed save I just did something appropriate to the situation. Fighting in a tight corridor? You misjudge your swing and your sword gets temporarily stuck in a wall. Firing into melee? Roll again to hit an ally.
Ultimately I found that it was just an extra annoyance and broke the flow of combat and still over-penalized characters with multiple attacks.
But seriously. Just say no to critical fumble tables. Or if you do want to use them, be sure your players enjoy it.
It never made sense to me that a high level fighter, someone at the pinnacle of expertise should fumble far more often than a lowly commoner who can barely swing a sword. I had a DM once who loved critical misses and would regularly have my high level fighter lose his weapon or risk breaking it.
The same goes for critical hit tables. The same DM loved to roll a special d6 after a crit to see what damage was done, each face of the die showed an arm/leg/head/body. Limbs went flying, heads were lopped off on a regular basis. Then he would throw a ton of low level monsters that needed to crit to hit the fighter who would inevitably die because he'd roll "head" on his crit die. This was in a previous edition and I had a ring of regen, so he'd lose an arm/head and have to glue the appendage back on.
It was annoying, stupid, and not fun for anyone but the DM who took great joy at breaking one (highly magical, rare) sword after another and crippling/killing my fighter. I didn't game with him for long.
When I did try critical fumbles, I gave people a saving throw equal to 20 minus their level or 20 minus twice their level for warrior types (fighters, paladins, rangers). On a failed save I just did something appropriate to the situation. Fighting in a tight corridor? You misjudge your swing and your sword gets temporarily stuck in a wall. Firing into melee? Roll again to hit an ally.
Ultimately I found that it was just an extra annoyance and broke the flow of combat and still over-penalized characters with multiple attacks.
But seriously. Just say no to critical fumble tables. Or if you do want to use them, be sure your players enjoy it.
Hawk Diesel
Adventurer
[MENTION=6801845]Oofta[/MENTION] I understand your concern about the natural 1 and high level fighters. But technically, attack rolls are opposed checks (attack roll versus passive AC where opponent has taken 10 rather than roll for AC). Presented in this light, attack rolls are not just about precision of attacks made by the fighter, but also the defense of the target. A natural 1 represents a moment of superior defense as much as a attack's equivalent of a brain fart.
Lanefan
Victoria Rules
We've used homebrewed fumble tables since not long after the end of the last ice age, as follows:
On a natural '1' (wich always misses in any case), or any roll brought to or below 1 by minuses (e.g. bane effects, shooting into melee, etc.), you threaten a fumble. Roll a d6. A '1' on that confirms the fumble.
Then, roll d% on a table the DM has which determines what you've done. Sometimes the rolled results are varied or over-ridden based on the situation e.g. the most likely fumble when shooting into melee is that you hit an ally so some less-compatible results might be changed to that instead...ideally we'd have different tables for different circumstances but life's too short.
Also, you can potentially fumble with anything including aimed spells, wands, etc.
Common results on the table include
- minor damage (d4) to self or nearby ally
- dropped weapon
- defenses slipped so as to give your opponent a free attack
- weapon or shield malfunction or damage of some sort
Less common results include
- full damage to self or ally
- thrown weapon
- some combination of minor results above
Rare results include
- critical damage to self or ally
- a combination of various results
In all cases where a magic item would potentially get broken it gets a save vs. such. Also, in all cases any fumble ends your round even if you would still otherwise have further actions.
Lan-"never mind what happens if you fail a save vs the spell 'Fumble'"-efan
On a natural '1' (wich always misses in any case), or any roll brought to or below 1 by minuses (e.g. bane effects, shooting into melee, etc.), you threaten a fumble. Roll a d6. A '1' on that confirms the fumble.
Then, roll d% on a table the DM has which determines what you've done. Sometimes the rolled results are varied or over-ridden based on the situation e.g. the most likely fumble when shooting into melee is that you hit an ally so some less-compatible results might be changed to that instead...ideally we'd have different tables for different circumstances but life's too short.
Also, you can potentially fumble with anything including aimed spells, wands, etc.Common results on the table include
- minor damage (d4) to self or nearby ally
- dropped weapon
- defenses slipped so as to give your opponent a free attack
- weapon or shield malfunction or damage of some sort
Less common results include
- full damage to self or ally
- thrown weapon
- some combination of minor results above
Rare results include
- critical damage to self or ally
- a combination of various results
In all cases where a magic item would potentially get broken it gets a save vs. such. Also, in all cases any fumble ends your round even if you would still otherwise have further actions.
Lan-"never mind what happens if you fail a save vs the spell 'Fumble'"-efan
So depending on how many turns you have. the high level fighter on average is going to fumble at least once per combat, while the level 1 will fumble once every 4-5 encounters?
No thanks. I want my heroes to be heroes, not butter-fingered buffoons who can't go a single combat without accidentally taking out their buddy.
It also greatly penalizes classes that have multiple attacks per round while having little impact on magic users and rogues.
Hawk Diesel
Adventurer
I do a couple of things to try and combat this:
1: Critical hits/fumbles also apply to any spell attack and saving throw. So a creature that rolls a natural 20 has a chance to in a sense cause the spell caster to fumble. A creature that rolls a natural 1 in a sense allows for the spellcaster to crit with their spell.
2: I continue to utilize the 3e/3.5 rule of Confirming the Crit/Fumble. Rolling a natural 1 or natural 20 is not enough. If a player rolls a natural 1, they make the attack again. If the attack misses, then they are considered to have fumbled. Makes fumbles more rare. Likewise, on a natural 20, even if the player misses to confirm, I still give them max damage on their attack so that it continues to mean something, even if they don't get double damage (actually double max damage in my games) or roll on the critical hit chart I have.
As for the tables I use, this is what I present to my players:
Critical Hit Table
1-5-Target is knocked prone.
6-10-Target is pushed back 10'
11-15-Target is disarmed, weapon knocked 10’ away in a random direction.
16-20-Target is pushed back 10' and knocked prone
21-25-Target is pushed 10' and disarmed.
26-30-Target is knocked prone and disarmed.
31-35-Target is pushed 10', knocked prone, and disarmed.
36-40-Target moves at half speed until magically healed or DC 15 Medicine Check
41-45-Target immobilized until the end of their next turn
46-50-Target is limited to either a move action, bonus action, or standard action for 1d4 turns.
51-55-Target takes a level of exhaustion
56-60-Target takes 1d6 bleed damage at the start of their turn until magically healed or DC 15 Medicine Check
61-65-Target stunned until end of their next turn.
66-70-Target blinded until magically healed or DC 15 Medicine Check
71-75-Target takes additional 1d8 damage anytime they take damage until they get a long rest
76-80-Target only regains half what they normally would when receiving magical healing or using hit dice to heal. Lasts for 1d4 days.
81-85-Target has the poisoned condition. At the end of each turn, they can attempt a DC 20 Con save to end it.
86-90-Target takes damage, and one adjacent enemy takes single max damage (if no adjacent enemy, reroll)
91-95-Target takes triple max damage.
96-97 - Secret Achievement. Must roll a 96 or 97 after confirming a critical to find out.
98 - Secret Achievement. Must roll a 98 after confirming a critical to find out.
99 - Secret Achievement. Must roll a 99 after confirming a critical to find out.
100 - Secret Achievement. Must roll a 100 after confirming a critical to find out.
Critical Fumble Table
1-5-Attacker is knocked prone.
6-10-Attacker stumbles and moves 10' (this movement provokes attacks of opportunity)
11-15-Attacker is disarmed, weapon knocked 10’ away in a random direction.
16-20-Attacker stumbles and moves 10' and knocked prone. (this movement provokes attacks of opportunity)
21-25-Attacker stumbles and moves 10' and disarmed. (this movement provokes attacks of opportunity)
26-30-Attacker is knocked prone and disarmed.
31-35-Attacker stumbles and moves 10', knocked prone, and disarmed. (this movement provokes attacks of opportunity)
36-40-Attacker moves at half speed until magically healed or DC 15 Medicine Check
41-45-Attacker immobilized until the end of their next turn
46-50-Attacker is limited to either a move action, bonus action, or standard action for 1d4 turns.
51-55-Attacker takes a level of exhaustion
56-60-Attacker takes 1d6 bleed damage at the start of their turn until magically healed or DC 15 Medicine Check
61-65-Attacker stunned until end of their next turn.
66-70-Attacker blinded until magically healed or DC 15 Medicine Check
71-75-Attacker takes additional 1d8 damage anytime they take damage until they get a long rest
76-80-Attacker takes weapon damage.
81-85-Attacker takes max weapon damage.
86-90-Attacker takes max damage, and one adjacent ally takes weapon damage
91-95-Attacker takes double max damage.
96-97 - Secret Achievement. Must roll a 96 or 97 after confirming a critical to find out.
98 - Secret Achievement. Must roll a 98 after confirming a critical to find out.
99 - Secret Achievement. Must roll a 99 after confirming a critical to find out.
100 - Secret Achievement. Must roll a 100 after confirming a critical to find out.
And even with all of that, the high level fighter is going to fumble at least 3 times more often than the rogue of the same level. More than that when the fighter action surges.
I've played around with fumbles because in theory they're fun. I've just never found a method to balance out classes that get multiple attacks or builds that dual-wield weapons versus single attack classes.
I'm not telling you how to run your game, but in your game (if I stuck around) I would never play a fighter. The cost is just too high. Anyway, I didn't mean to XXXX all over your thread or your ideas. Have fun gaming!
Celebrim
Legend
Depends very much on how you implement fumbles. It's not at all guaranteed that a fumble chart means a high level fighter fumbles more often than a low level one. That confusing a very specific implementation of a fumble chart with fumbles generally.
You say you wouldn't play a fighter. So what would you play? Do you have a good notion of what a spell fumble chart might look like?
