D&D 5E Warlock Invocations Sign of Ill Omen and Thief of Five Fates

[Warpiglet]

I am often loathe to multiclass to the point that I was attempting a pure blade pact.

Of some amusement, it is not the blade part that is tripping my concept up. Its the lack of low level spell slots!

Specifically, my concept requires both hex as well as bane. I am interested in both: Sign of Ill Omen and Thief of Five Fates.

However, I was also interested in a few levels of Sorcerer or Bard. I want more spell slots.

I cannot determine how this would work with say sorcerer spells.

Complicating matters would be sorcery points. Can I use these invocations to create spell slots to burn with either of these?

I have searched for some time and find little to clarify. Thanks in advance for any information/opinion.

 

[tglassy]

Ok.

You don't create spell slots with these invocations. You are just able to cast the spell once per day using a Warlock Spell Slot. So, if you only have two spell slots, you can use one of them to cast one of these spells.

If you have a Spellcasting spell class, like Sorcerer, then the spell slots from the spellcasting class are separate from the spell slots from the Warlock's Pact Magic. So, a Warlock3, Sorcerer 3 would have 4 first level slots, two second level slots, and then two additional 2nd level Warlock slots that recharge on a short rest. Per the rules, you can use any of those spell slots to cast any spell you know, be they Warlock or Sorcerer. So you can use the Sorcerer spell slots to cast Warlock Spells, and Warlock Spell slots to cast Sorcerer spells.

Sorcerer Points are hard. They just say you can change a spell slot into points, and points into a spell slot, it doesn't say Sorcerer spell slots, though it's probably intended to be that way. I don't know if I, as a DM, would allow you to use Sorcerer Points to make a Warlock Spell Slot. Not to mention the fact that with the above 3/3 character, you'd use all three spell points to make one 2nd level Warlock spell slot. Useful, I guess, but then you don't get any metamagic that short rest.

As for Bane, it specifically says you can use Warlock spell slots to cast it once per day, so you'd have to use one of your Warlock spell slots to do so, not the Sorcerer slots.

 

[plisnithus8]

A 1st level human variant can take Magic Initiate feat to take an additional 1st level Warlock or Sorcerer spell.

 

[Warpiglet]

A 1st level human variant can take Magic Initiate feat to take an additional 1st level Warlock or Sorcerer spell.

Yes. I am thinking I might have to do this. I also wanted to use it to get thaumaturgy for RP purposes, but my wisdom is low (hence ill advised warlocking!). If I take bane this way, it will be at a penalty...

Sheesh. I could go bard to get it. But then I am not moving into metamagic with sorcerer...

 

[Gadget]

As a side note, I'm not sure why both of the spells granted by those invocations are not on the Warlock's spell list to begin with. The devs have made the comment that they did it this way so the player is not casting those spells frequently to the point that it would be 'irritating' (not an exact quote). I see nothing about either of those spells that would problematic if cast by the Warlock using one of their pact magic spell slots. Perhaps a little over caution with the new spell casting method.

Also, I'm a little confused by the OP. As I understand it, neither of those invocations gives you additional slots. They merely allow one to use the slots on hand to cast different spells once per day. Come to think of it, the invocation might be more worthwhile if they didn't use your spell slots, merely let you cast the spells once per day without using a slot. That way you could have a little extra variety and juice, but not go overboard with it.

 

[Warpiglet]

As a side note, I'm not sure why both of the spells granted by those invocations are not on the Warlock's spell list to begin with. The devs have made the comment that they did it this way so the player is not casting those spells frequently to the point that it would be 'irritating' (not an exact quote). I see nothing about either of those spells that would problematic if cast by the Warlock using one of their pact magic spell slots. Perhaps a little over caution with the new spell casting method.

Also, I'm a little confused by the OP. As I understand it, neither of those invocations gives you additional slots. They merely allow one to use the slots on hand to cast different spells once per day. Come to think of it, the invocation might be more worthwhile if they didn't use your spell slots, merely let you cast the spells once per day without using a slot. That way you could have a little extra variety and juice, but not go overboard with it.

These solutions would work. Generally, I "get" the rules pretty easily. My confusion here was in whether spell points could be derived from warlock slots or alternatively ifthief of five fates could be fuled by sorcery spells.

In most circumstances of multiclass slots, they are considered together. It seems pact magic is the only outlier.

 

[TallIan]

These solutions would work. Generally, I "get" the rules pretty easily. My confusion here was in whether spell points could be derived from warlock slots...

Yes it can, a sorcerer with a warlock dip is a common multiclass option, where the warlock slots regenerate on a short rest to give the sorcerer more spell points. I haven't seen it much but I have considered a warlock with a sorcerer dip to allow low level spell casting without using high level warlock spell slots.

or alternatively if thief of five fates could be fuled by sorcery spells.

In a round about way, yes. Your sorcery points are used to create a warlock spell slot, that then gets used to power thief of five fates. If your DM is not happy with sorcery points creating warlock slots, then make a sorcerer 2nd level slot to cast warlock spells and save your warlock slot for ToFF.

Personally I wouldn't have a problem with sorcery points creating warlock spell slots as the slots can be used to cast spells from either list. ToFF (and similar invocations) all have a once per long rest stipulation for I can't see it throwing anything out of whack.

In most circumstances of multiclass slots, they are considered together. It seems pact magic is the only outlier.

It is, but they work very differently as well (always at max level) so I can't see them working as per the normal MC rules.