Warforged Construct costs?

[benosmash]

I'm considering creating a warforged as a Gestalt lv 12 Warlock/Artificer and I can't seem to find what the gold costs, required materials and required spells would be. After a few hours of searching I've decided that my google-fu is weak.

Anyone have any ideas that might shed some light on the matter?

Thanks in advance,
~Benosmash

 

[Drowbane]

I'm considering creating a warforged as a Gestalt lv 12 Warlock/Artificer and I can't seem to find what the gold costs, required materials and required spells would be. After a few hours of searching I've decided that my google-fu is weak.

Anyone have any ideas that might shed some light on the matter?

Thanks in advance,
~Benosmash

ok, I'll bite.

Costs for what now? Warforged is a PC race, doesn't "cost" anything.

 

[benosmash]

I'm talking about creating the warforged as an NPC construct using the create construct item creation feat.

Not only is the idea of a warforged helping the party out an interesting idea, but can lead into some great roleplaying experiences if the warforged decides to rebel and leave.

 

[frankthedm]

I'm considering creating a warforged as a Gestalt lv 12 Warlock/Artificer and I can't seem to find what the gold costs, required materials and required spells would be. After a few hours of searching I've decided that my google-fu is weak.

Anyone have any ideas that might shed some light on the matter?

Thanks in advance,
~Benosmash

Infuriatingly the designer has avoided putting a cost or value on the materials of a warforged due IMHO to squeamishness.

The makers of a normal construct buy HD to improve golems. Character Levels don't generally have costs because they are the soul, or at least what is analogus to the soul. I say this since i am of the opinion warforged do not have souls since they are immune to energy drain.

The bovd puts the value of a soul in a receptacle at 200 gp. 250gp if in larval form. IMHO, that's insultingly cheap for a soul, so IMHO that should be the cost for a level one character and probably a commoner to boot. Level squared times 200 gp sounds like a much better price on such a precious commodity.

youtube.com/watch?v=Q_Zj7YcrfD8 [skip to 4:20 for an amusing scene on the value of a soul (in a children's cartoon no less)]

 

[benosmash]

The bovd puts the value of a soul in a receptacle at 200 gp. 250gp if in larval form. IMHO, that's insultingly cheap for a soul, so IMHO that should be the cost for a level one character and probably a commoner to boot. Level squared times 200 gp sounds like a much better price on such a precious commodity.

That sounds like a good starting place, and a great bit of fluff to add to the creation of a warforged. However, I think that if a warforged were created with levels (and thus HD) It should follow the same rules for extra HD (after the first, of course) that is given for golems in the MM:

Note: The market price of an advanced golem (a golem with more Hit Dice than the typical golem described in each entry) is increased by 5,000 gp for each additional Hit Die, and increased by an additional 50,000 gp if the golem’s size increases. The XP cost for creating an advanced golem is equal to 1/25 the advanced golem’s market price minus the cost of the special materials required.

And I think it should follow a similar rule as the Artificer's homunculus in that it can't exceed a fraction of the original creator's HD (when created, anyway).

However, this still leaves me at a loss for base cost for materials. The Flesh Golem, the one that costs the least to make in the MM, costs 10,500 gp to create in materials and components. It has 9 HD, is of large size and has a few extra nifty abilities. However, taking into account that it requires a lot of material, but that the material is cheap, it doesn't give me a great estimate as to what the cost would be.

So, going up to the Iron Golem would be my next best bet. However, this thing is of large size and has 18 HD, not to mention its breath weapon and other special qualities. It costs 80,000 gp to create.

So how do I price it? The materials that go into creating a Warforged, as the MMIII tells me are obsidian, iron, stone, darkwood and silver. These are obviously more expensive than 6 bodies and special materials, but at the same time, 300 lbs of these materials should cost far less than 5,000 lbs of iron and the 10,000 gp cost of smelting materials. If the Iron golem was made with the HD rule previously stated, bringing the cost down to 1 HD (ignoring the cost for increasing size) and not including the extra materials costs brings the cost for base materials for a 1 HD large Iron Golem to about 34,000 gp.

Considering that this golem would still weigh at least a ton and the materials other than iron for crafting a warforged, with the possible exception of stone, all cost more at equivelant weights (or so I assume), I think that a reduced cost would be a decent guestimate as to the sheer materials costs for a medium warforged at first level. Say, 20,000 gp? Not to mention other special materials that might go into the creation of a warforged (what they are, or could be, I have no idea).

So, does 34,000 gp (base materials and other special materials) seem like a fair price to pay for the creation of a warforged? Is it too low, too high?

I know that I'm pretty much answering my question with this but I'd like some feedback as to what people think is a fair guestimation as to the cost of creating a warforged.

 

[Shin Okada]

I don't think you can directly create a warforged with 2+ class levels. Aren't warforged supposed to gain XP and "advance" by themselves?

Anyway, if you could, IMHO all the class abilities, feats, skills, infusions and invocations that uber warforged has should be included as prerequisite. Of course, you can use co-operation rule for meeting prerequisite. So if you can hire right person or two (or more), you can meet prerequisite.

Edit: Regarding cost, I am not sure how to calculate CR of a gestalt character. But maybe character level +2 or so? If I were you, I will compare the creating costs of CR 13-14 constructs.

 

[irdeggman]

You could look to the Warforged Titan (ECS pg 302) as the base. Color text describes it as a "golem", so take that and use a golem as the base equivalent. It is a construct and not a living construct.

Now the Eberron method of creating a warforged a closely guarded secret of House Cannath. If you wish to destroy part of the setting's political base feel free to allow creation of the race by anyone, but I feel this messes with the setting a whole lot. Now if the PC was from House Cannath on the other hand. . . .

 

[benosmash]

I don't think you can directly create a warforged with 2+ class levels. Aren't warforged supposed to gain XP and "advance" by themselves?

Anyway, if you could, IMHO all the class abilities, feats, skills, infusions and invocations that uber warforged has should be included as prerequisite. Of course, you can use co-operation rule for meeting prerequisite. So if you can hire right person or two (or more), you can meet prerequisite.

Edit: Regarding cost, I am not sure how to calculate CR of a gestalt character. But maybe character level +2 or so? If I were you, I will compare the creating costs of CR 13-14 constructs.

Having a person (NPC or PC) teach the warforged the knowledge required to fill their HD with levels is a good idea.

I should have clarified though.. My character is gestalt, not the warforged I want to create.

Now the Eberron method of creating a warforged a closely guarded secret of House Cannath.

The setting is more Forgotten Realms than Eberron. Essentially it's a blend of a lot of settings and ideas throughout the years, all mixed into one world. We've been given (for the most part) free reign as to what source books we want to pull from, as long as the GM is given access to them and gives the okay.

 

[irdeggman]

The setting is more Forgotten Realms than Eberron. Essentially it's a blend of a lot of settings and ideas throughout the years, all mixed into one world. We've been given (for the most part) free reign as to what source books we want to pull from, as long as the GM is given access to them and gives the okay.

Well here comes the "problem" with merging settings.

The artificer as a class relies heavily on the use of Action Points - as specified in the ECS and not the UA version (the two are different).

So in order to adequately use the class you have to pretty much import the entire AP system from the ECS (which includes a lot of AP based feats).

I say this because using AP has an effect on all players and not just those running an artificer

I would still go with the warforged titan (true construct) route instead. Whenever you start to dable with the "living" aspect it crosses the line from inanimate objects to creatures and the creating life aspects come into play.

Basically you want to create a "robot" and not an "elf". I use the elf comparison because over the years there has a lot of discussion over whether or not they have "souls".

 

[benosmash]

The artificer as a class relies heavily on the use of Action Points - as specified in the ECS and not the UA version (the two are different).

The original GM of the game (We're now onto a different GM who is running in the world while the guy whose world we're playing in is playing a PC) has incorporated Action points into the game. And to be quite honest, that's a large part of the reason why I am gestalt warlock/artificer, so that I don't have to worry about using up my action points so quickly to be useful in combat.