Wall of Stone Question / Overpowered?

[Mistwell]

I have a question about increasing the thickness of a wall of stone at the expense of width/height.

Here is the SRD entry for it for reference

Wall of Stone
Conjuration (Creation) [Earth]
Level: Clr 5, Drd 6, Earth 5, Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: Stone wall whose area is up to one 5-ft. square/level (S)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: No

This spell creates a wall of rock that merges into adjoining rock surfaces. A wall of stone is 1 inch thick per four caster levels and composed of up to one 5-foot square per level. You can double the wall’s area by halving its thickness. The wall cannot be conjured so that it occupies the same space as a creature or another object.

Unlike a wall of iron, you can create a wall of stone in almost any shape you desire. The wall created need not be vertical, nor rest upon any firm foundation; however, it must merge with and be solidly supported by existing stone. It can be used to bridge a chasm, for instance, or as a ramp. For this use, if the span is more than 20 feet, the wall must be arched and buttressed. This requirement reduces the spell’s area by half. The wall can be crudely shaped to allow crenellations, battlements, and so forth by likewise reducing the area.

Like any other stone wall, this one can be destroyed by a disintegrate spell or by normal means such as breaking and chipping. Each 5-foot square of the wall has 15 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 8. A section of wall whose hit points drop to 0 is breached. If a creature tries to break through the wall with a single attack, the DC for the Strength check is 20 + 2 per inch of thickness.

It is possible, but difficult, to trap mobile opponents within or under a wall of stone, provided the wall is shaped so it can hold the creatures. Creatures can avoid entrapment with successful Reflex saves.
Arcane Material Component: A small block of granite.

Part of the spell says "You can double the wall’s area by halving its thickness. ". My question is, can I double the wall's thickness by halving its area? For example, lets say I am a 9th level Cleric using the spell to seal a standard 5' doorway. How thick can I make the wall? Can I make it double over on itself? I'm looking to make the DC higher for breaking through, or require multiple break attempts to get all the way through. Anyone have some thoughts on this?

 

[Majere]

As per the rules:
No you cant.

It might be a reasonable house rule, just beware you might find that the spell could be overly poweful when people start filling 10x10 corridors with 3" thick stone.

Majere

 

[Rashak Mani]

You could shape the wall to make it block the same corridor several times...

 

[Cheiromancer]

Can I make it double over on itself?

Absolutely; it's like folding a piece of paper, and is an obvious application of the provision that "you can create a wall of stone in almost any shape you desire." You create the wall doubled back on itself.

They have to specify that you can cover a greater area by using a thinner wall, since the piece of paper argument doesn't apply; you can't stretch a piece of paper.

 

[Mistwell]

So, assuming it can double back on itself, would that mean that you would need to make one strength DC check per section? In other words, if I make it double back on itself twice (total of three sections), would it require three separate strength checks to break all the way through, or would it just be one strength check with the DC increased for the additional inches of thickness?

 

[Cheiromancer]

One check, if they are merged together.

Three checks, if there is a significant space between them.

Think of how three sticks can be easily broken separately; if they are bundled together the task is much harder.

 

[Mistwell]

One check, if they are merged together.

Three checks, if there is a significant space between them.

Think of how three sticks can be easily broken separately; if they are bundled together the task is much harder.

Okay, so lets assume it is stacked first:

"A wall of stone is 1 inch thick per four caster levels and composed of up to one 5-foot square per level."

So a 9th level caster can create a wall 2 inches thick and 45 square feet (9 5-foot square sections). In other words, you could stack a 5 foot block as 18 inches thick. It would have 15 hit points per inch of thickness, for a total of 270 hit points. It would have a hardness of 8. If a creature tries to break through the wall with a single attack, the DC for the Strength check is 20 + 2 per inch of thickness, for a total DC of 20+36=56.

I don't know guys. If my math is right (and I hope someone can verify it for me) that makes it virtually impossible to break through. In fact, the guy trying to get through the blocked door would likely have a better chance digging out through the wall next to the door. Is this really how people have used wall of stone before?

 

[Lamoni]

I don't know guys. If my math is right (and I hope someone can verify it for me) that makes it virtually impossible to break through. In fact, the guy trying to get through the blocked door would likely have a better chance digging out through the wall next to the door. Is this really how people have used wall of stone before?

Looks fine to me. It is a 5th level spell and using it prevent passage through a door doesn't seem overpowered. The person could use Wall of force instead and that seems like it would do an even better job of preventing people from getting through the door.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Looks fine to me. It is a 5th level spell and using it prevent passage through a door doesn't seem overpowered. The person could use Wall of force instead and that seems like it would do an even better job of preventing people from getting through the door.

Except that wall of force isn't permanent, wall of stone is.

I personally wouldn't allow increasing of thickness, because as Mistwell calculates, the wall becomes impossibly strong.

 

[Lamoni]

Except that wall of force isn't permanent, wall of stone is.

I personally wouldn't allow increasing of thickness, because as Mistwell calculates, the wall becomes impossibly strong.

In a few cases... but at the time you have access to wall of stone, your enemies could very well have access to another 5th level spell. Teleport. Granted, most grunts would spend a long time getting through that. Let's see... it would take about a minute per inch of thickness for a very dedicated person on the appropriate level to breech the wall. It would be very similar to just tunneling through rock in a normal mine. It is quite possible to pass and I see no problem with creating something like this at 5th level. And I see no reason why you shouldn't allow it based on the rules.

If my players decided to use wall of stone for this purpose, I would find it quite clever.

Edit: Most doors are quite a bit taller than 5'. So if you wanted to completely block the door you would most likely need to make it 10' tall... which cuts the thickness in half (8-10 inches). If you wanted to use it to block a 10' wide corridor it would cut the thickness in half again (4 inches). After level 12 you can make it quite a bit thicker, but you also have access to level 6 spells.