D&D (2024) Using True Strike with Cleave

[ECMO3]

Looking at my first 2024 build - probably going to be a human Paladin 1/Dance Bard.

Thinking of going with a Dex build, 13 strength, max Charisma and magic Initiate with True Strike, Shield and maybe Mage Hand on Charisma.

I am thinking of going with a Great Axe out of the gate and using True Strike-Cleave. I am wondering if I could use Charisma for the Cleave attack and if I could make the Cleave attack radiant damage.

 

[Kobold Stew]

I don't know what gives you Cleave, but True Strike won't work once you get Extra Attack at Paladin 5.

 

[mellored]

I am thinking of going with a Great Axe out of the gate and using True Strike-Cleave. I am wondering if I could use Charisma for the Cleave attack and if I could make the Cleave attack radiant damage.

No.

True Stike specifically says "the attack". So just that 1.


But if you get Shillelagh from Magic Initiate (Druid), you can use that to attack with Cha. You're stuck with either Slow or Topple, but it scales to a 1 handed 2d6 weapon for the occasional bonus action.

I don't know what gives you Cleave, but True Strike won't work once you get Extra Attack at Paladin 5.

You can't extra attack with it, but it still works.

Could be good if you went 14 Str and 18 Cha or similar.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Double checking things (using the true strike wording from the playtest), I would agree with Mellored. True Strike said you can make one attack, cleave specifically says you make a second attack. So your first attack would be with Charisma and Radiant, your second attack would be with strength and slashing.

Instead of the Greataxe, I might look into the Greatsword/Glaive. I would rule that Graze works with True Strike to use Charisma if you miss with the attack. Or you could go with the Pike and get Topple. Reach weapons might be good with the Dance Bard's mobility as well, since you are planning on going 19 levels of Bard it looks like.

 

[ECMO3]

I don't know what gives you Cleave, but True Strike won't work once you get Extra Attack at Paladin 5.

I'm not going past Paladin 1.

I am only getting 1 level in Paladin and only for mastery and smite .... and I will have full caster slots for smiting.

 

[ECMO3]

Double checking things (using the true strike wording from the playtest), I would agree with Mellored. True Strike said you can make one attack, cleave specifically says you make a second attack. So your first attack would be with Charisma and Radiant, your second attack would be with strength and slashing.

Instead of the Greataxe, I might look into the Greatsword/Glaive. I would rule that Graze works with True Strike to use Charisma if you miss with the attack. Or you could go with the Pike and get Topple. Reach weapons might be good with the Dance Bard's mobility as well, since you are planning on going 19 levels of Bard it looks like.

Thematically I really like a great axe and Cleave, at least initially, probably Whip as my 2nd mastery. You can change with rest, so eventually I will use whatever magic we find.

Topple is also not very good without extra attack IMO. It gives a lot of your allies disadvantage and the bad guy just stands up and attacks without disadvantage on his turn. I will have bonus action unarmed strikes, but probably not enough to overome the negatives of proning an enemy.

 

[Zardnaar]

Interesting take. Let's you explode with smites and use true strike. You're still a dance bard so you're trading a bard level to not completely suck in melee combat.

Cleave won't really apply with true strike though imho. Adding Shillelagh into the mix fixes it.

Personally I woud skip the cleave part. Maybe knock prone instead. High opportunity cost imho. Sure you can do it why bother. You'll be tripping over bonus actions.

CME at 11 is funny though with cleave.

 

[pukunui]

I'm not going past Paladin 1.

I am only getting 1 level in Paladin and only for mastery and smite .... and I will have full caster slots for smiting.

Why not take a 2nd level of paladin so you can have Divine Smite as a bonus spell with one free casting per day? You’d also get a Fighting Style feat.

 

[ECMO3]

Why not take a 2nd level of paladin so you can have Divine Smite as a bonus spell with one free casting per day? You’d also get a Fighting Style feat.

I have actually shelved this build for now. But the reason for only one level is in part because the fighting styles are not that great for this type character and one extra smite a day is not worth a Bard level when a bard level will usually get me another spell of my choice.

I have had a couple different ideas for a Dance Bard now and can't settle on any I really like. 1 Level of Paladin is probably the best one I have toyed with so far. I also looked at 1 level of Monk, but dismissed that as the Monk level starts to drag the character at high levels. I looked at 6 levels of Bladesinger and 2 levels of Warlock, dumping Constitution and playing a Dwarf with Tough, but that is a lot of levels of other stuff to get my "Dance Bard" character to where I want. Bladesinger works thematically with Dance Bard, but Warlock doesn't really.

 

[Zardnaar]

I have actually shelved this build for now. But the reason for only one level is in part because the fighting styles are not that great for this type character and one extra smite a day is not worth a Bard level when a bard level will usually get me another spell of my choice.

I have had a couple different ideas for a Dance Bard now and can't settle on any I really like. 1 Level of Paladin is probably the best one I have toyed with so far. I also looked at 1 level of Monk, but dismissed that as the Monk level starts to drag the character at high levels. I looked at 6 levels of Bladesinger and 2 levels of Warlock, dumping Constitution and playing a Dwarf with Tough, but that is a lot of levels of other stuff to get my "Dance Bard" character to where I want. Bladesinger works thematically with Dance Bard, but Warlock doesn't really.

The paladin dip works more or less as soon as you take it. Counts as a full caster level for spell table?

If toy play the dance bard as a skirmisher that is primarily a caster I think you'll do alright.

Kinda like the original blade singer. Looks like a gish but you're better off using it to be a better wizard than trying to deal minimal damage in melee.