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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9002545" data-attributes="member: 7030563">It is actually pretty significant for a couple reasonsFirst if you are fighting a single enemy, normally a single enemy invalidates Beguiling twist because you can't bounce it against the same guy that saves, this gives two big advantages and a 3rd small one:1. Makes Boss save twice against Frightened:&nbsp; Frightened is powerful and this would mean that enemy would have to save twice to avoid being frightened initially because while a successful save makes him immune to the pipes it does not make him immune to beguiling twist frighten.&nbsp; So if the big bad makes his initial save against the pipes, he immediately has to save again against the twist from the allies save against the pipes.2. Combines charmed and frightened:&nbsp; If the BBEG fails the initial save against the pipes you can both charm and frighten him.&nbsp; This is extremely debilitating.&nbsp; Charm prevents him from targeting the ranger at all and frightened prevents him from approaching the ranger.&nbsp; This means as long as both of those are in place the Ranger can just go in and attack and then move to keep him from advancing on allies.&nbsp; He gets no opportunity attacks on the ranger leaving his space for position (charmed), can't attack the Ranger (charmed) and can't go around the Ranger (frightened).3. Beguiling Twist is the gift that keeps on giving.&nbsp; As long as you have a reaction when one enemy saves you can twist another.&nbsp; This bounces the frightened (or charmed) effect from enemy to enemy.&nbsp; So for example 3 bad guys when you use the pipes - two are frightened, one makes his save.&nbsp; You twist the guy that makes his save off an auto save and he gets frightened too - you have 3 frightened.&nbsp; Then on round 2 one of the guys saves - you twist charm another, now you have 2 frightened and one of the frightened guys is also charmed.&nbsp; Then round 3 that guy that is charmed saves agaisnt charmed, you twist that back to the first guy who is no longer frightened.&nbsp; Now&nbsp; you have 3 frightened again&nbsp; ......&nbsp; Also because charmed condition does not generally hurt party members you can even do this when fighting a single enemy and &quot;park&quot; a charmed condition on an ally to twist later.&nbsp; Lets say you charm and frighten a single enemy as in &quot;2&quot; above.&nbsp; Then he saves against the frighten at the end of one of his turns - you twist that on to an ally as a charm.&nbsp; You want him to fail this save as he was not going to attack you anyway, so he is not negatively affecting him but several turns later when he succeeds on his save, you twist frighten back on the big guy.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 9002545, member: 7030563"] It is actually pretty significant for a couple reasons First if you are fighting a single enemy, normally a single enemy invalidates Beguiling twist because you can't bounce it against the same guy that saves, this gives two big advantages and a 3rd small one: [B]1. Makes Boss save twice against Frightened: [/B]Frightened is powerful and this would mean that enemy would have to save twice to avoid being frightened initially because while a successful save makes him immune to the pipes it does not make him immune to beguiling twist frighten. So if the big bad makes his initial save against the pipes, he immediately has to save again against the twist from the allies save against the pipes. [B]2. Combines charmed and frightened:[/B] If the BBEG fails the initial save against the pipes you can both charm and frighten him. This is extremely debilitating. Charm prevents him from targeting the ranger at all and frightened prevents him from approaching the ranger. This means as long as both of those are in place the Ranger can just go in and attack and then move to keep him from advancing on allies. He gets no opportunity attacks on the ranger leaving his space for position (charmed), can't attack the Ranger (charmed) and can't go around the Ranger (frightened). [B]3. Beguiling Twist is the gift that keeps on giving. [/B]As long as you have a reaction when one enemy saves you can twist another. This bounces the frightened (or charmed) effect from enemy to enemy. So for example 3 bad guys when you use the pipes - two are frightened, one makes his save. You twist the guy that makes his save off an auto save and he gets frightened too - you have 3 frightened. Then on round 2 one of the guys saves - you twist charm another, now you have 2 frightened and one of the frightened guys is also charmed. Then round 3 that guy that is charmed saves agaisnt charmed, you twist that back to the first guy who is no longer frightened. Now you have 3 frightened again ...... Also because charmed condition does not generally hurt party members you can even do this when fighting a single enemy and "park" a charmed condition on an ally to twist later. Lets say you charm and frighten a single enemy as in "2" above. Then he saves against the frighten at the end of one of his turns - you twist that on to an ally as a charm. You want him to fail this save as he was not going to attack you anyway, so he is not negatively affecting him but several turns later when he succeeds on his save, you twist frighten back on the big guy. [/QUOTE]

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