Using Creation and Fabricate

[Corwin of Amber]

I would like to try a Psion Shaper. I was wondering what types of uses are there (in and out of combat) for the powers Minor Creation, Major Creation, True Creation, Fabricate, and Greater Fabricate?

It seems that they can be quite good for generating wealth via selling false goods, or refining raw materials. I just don't know what types of offensive uses they have. Can I fabricate a giant block of wood above someone's head, etc?

 

[Aplixis]

Fabricate enemy's non magical weapons and armor into useless shapes like sword to slinky.

Fabricate the ground to cage, blaw blaw blaw think full metal alchemist cheese.

create minor some noodles for your Craft (mac & cheese)

 

[Greenfield]

I have to admit, I never considered using Fabricate in combat, but I see that it does have a range of "Close" instead of "touch".

The casting time is 1 round per cubic foot of metal/stone, or per 10 feet of organic material. That can be a long time for a caster to stand in place, just as it is for the various Summon spells. Lots of time for an opponent to target you, but the potential is insane. It becomes "Polymorph Any Object" for non-magical gear.

You just opened up a whole new venue for abusing that spell. Thanks (I think).

 

[Corwin of Amber]

Those are great suggestions, thank you.

 

[Aplixis]

Im also building something similar its a wiz/psion/cerbro

something to keep in mind if you want to make anything with detail you need to make a craft check. you can use polymorph or alter to change to things like

Dwarfs get +2 racial bonus on craft checks that are related to stone or metal.

im sure there is more if i find any ill post them

 

[Corwin of Amber]

Im also building something similar its a wiz/psion/cerbro

something to keep in mind if you want to make anything with detail you need to make a craft check. you can use polymorph or alter to change to things like

Dwarfs get +2 racial bonus on craft checks that are related to stone or metal.

im sure there is more if i find any ill post them

- Gnomes get +2 to Craft (alchemy)
- Cleric domain Creation grants +4 to all craft checks.
- Marshal Aura adds Cha to Int-Based skills
- Illumian Naen sigil adds +2 to Int-based skills

 

[glenw]

Though I assume you have already long since made your decision on this, I would like to point out the catch in turning your opponents sword into a Slinky and that is that you must have "possession" of it first.

Stated in the SRD : A spell’s components are what you must do or possess to cast it.

And stated in fabricate the materials to be transformed ARE the material components for the spell.


I would allow a player with "acceptable proximity" to an unattended material to be considered in possession of it...but it if it is connected to someone else and in no way connected to the caster...then I would not.

It is my understanding that the range given in Fabricate indicates where the resulting "product" can be generated. So you could "posses" a wooden wall that is next to you and fabricate another wooden wall (or whatever you want it to be) anywhere in range.

You can recontextualize this with other spells if it helps:

I would not let someone with no food cast animal messenger because he is in "close range" of a restaurant or the targeted animal is actively eating in close range.

I also would not let someone cast Flaming Arrow because someone else had oil and flint in close range.

Now...I have had lots of discussion about this and the idea of using contested possession as a material component is generally a cool enough trick that we let it slide. Since the material component destruction has no rules though it can get kind of harry...(Does immunity to spells prevent the use of something as a component?) Heroics' MC is a piece of equipment used by at least a 15th level fighter in battle (and note...it does not say anything about it not being magical)....If a mage wants to touch the +5 vorpal sword the 15 level fighter is using and cast Heroics with it to destroy the sword by taking a chunk out of it...well, go ahead and let him...But now you got a Wizard in touch range of a REALLY pissed off fighter. In the same vein I would totally allow a mage to fabricate anything matching the Fabricates target as long as an argument for possession could be established.

In this case...he could: Destroy equipment, vehicles, doors, walls, floors, corpses, traps, spellbooks, cloths, ropes, ladders, stairs, famous works of art, evidence, instruments, barrels that have stuff in them (and not the stuff that is in them), and anything else unmagical and not alive the he does not want....Perhaps you could reconstitute a tanglefoot bag that was thrown on a friend. I find the best effects are to use it to get rid of a problem and gain an advantage. (Escaping Prison. Friend Chained to a Wall, Fabricate the chain (or the wall its connect to) into a weapon)

In the case of clearly non-possessed Items I would "broaden" the range. If a "fabricator" went into a room and found the enemy's rack of Halberds, I would allow him to sack all the weapons on the rack for the construction of a reinforced blockade. These are all judgement calls of course.

Note also, magical items are out for Fabricate, but enchanted items are in totally different subject...Fabricate can totally get rid of the best arcane lock by just getting rid of the enchanted obstruction

 

[Aplixis]

when i said sword to slinky i was just repeating my recent findings and had not put much thought into that. My group seems to ignore spell comp unless there expensive and its just scratch off gp and your done.


Link to Thread talking about Fabricate
Fabricate [D&D 3.5] - Giant in the Playground Forums


P.S. what weapon are you talking about glenw +5 vorp...wut? idk

 

[deWolf]

Ignoring the details on a components isn't just how your group does it...its actually the official ruling.

From the SRD:

Material (M)
A material component is one or more physical substances or objects that are annihilated by the spell energies in the casting process. Unless a cost is given for a material component, the cost is negligible. Don’t bother to keep track of material components with negligible cost. Assume you have all you need as long as you have your spell component pouch.

But at the heart of it the components, though "irrelevent" are somewhere on the caster (traditionally apparently a pouch). Just like you normally ignore somatic components as long as the hands are free and verbal is ignored as long as you have no issues speaking. In general the groups I have played in have only addressed the issue when there is a reason why the caster would be apart from components (Someone has stolen the caster's pouch, caster intentionally searched for components, bathing...) and paying any attention at all is just an edge case.

Its not technically important that the caster has food for a Animal Messenger or oil and flint for Flame arrow, or even 100gp in cash instead of crushed pearl for Identify. The point is that material components are not intended as no save,no attack roll, ranged attacks. Though Shatter is a pretty good alternative