Unclear on how kobolds work (stats/attacks)

[Lazybones]

I'm sure this was discussed earlier, probably around the time 4e came out, but I couldn't find it in any of the nearby threads in this forum. I didn't see these mentioned in the collected errata thread, or in the Wizards errata list.

I was reading through Keep of the Shadowfell and the Monster Manual, and was having some difficulty in understanding how the kobold stats work out. I wasn't sure if they were just pervaded with errors, or if I was missing something.

For example, a majority of the stat blocks in Shadowfell have wrong stat modifiers. Some of these were fixed in the MM, but in the Wyrmpriest entry it still says that a 9 stat is a +0 modifier, and 17 is a +4. I'm assuming these are just errors, as the slinger has the right values, but they're not mentioned in the errata lists.

I'm having a tougher time trying to see where they came up with the kobold attack values. Minions, for example, throw javelins with a +5 attack. But in the Player's Handbook, it says that javelins are "heavy thrown," which AFAICT means that they use strength and not dexterity for the attack and damage modifier. Shouldn't the attack value be -1 (Str) +2 (Prof) +0 (Level) for a total of +1?

Similar questions for the skirmisher. I assume it's using the spear in melee (i.e. not throwing away its only weapon). The attack value given is +6, but shouldn't it be +1 also? And the damage 1d8-1?

And for the dragonshield, it gets a +7 and 1d6+3 damage, but with 14 Str shouldn't it be +2 (Str) +3 (Prof) +1 (Level*1/2) for +6, 1d6+2?

It looks like the Slyblade's basic attack is also off by a lot.

I'm wondering if it just says somewhere that monsters don't follow the same rules as PCs in this edition and I just missed it. hanks in advance for any clarification you can provide.

 

[Oldtimer]

I'm wondering if it just says somewhere that monsters don't follow the same rules as PCs in this edition and I just missed it.

Yes, it does. Yes, you did.

 

[Lazybones]

Yes, it does. Yes, you did.

This would help me much more if you included a reference.

 

[DracoSuave]

For a level 3 monster, a 9 ability score is, in fact, a +0 modifier to d20 rolls.

Secondly, it is correct that monsters' attacks are not based on stats they have. Check the DMG on how to create a monster for a better insight in how a monster's stats are derived. It comes more from their role and purpose in the game than any arbitrary stats. In 3rd edition design, you started with the ability scores and feats and then figured everything out from there. In 4th edition design, instead you think 'This monster needs a 1d6+4 ranged attack' and you just go ahead and give it one.

Monsters and NPCs don't -need- the same rules for creation as players because they're not the same thing. They are there to challenge players for a quick fight and then go away. Do you -need- to know what their Nature check is? Most of the time no. Do you -need- to give a monster a gazillion feats? No. It's a lot of unnecessary work for something that'll be in your game for 4 combat rounds tops.

It's only if the beastie or NPC needs to stick around for quite a few sessions that you might start caring about their full stat blocks.

Maybe.

You probably never will.

 

[GoLu]

For example, a majority of the stat blocks in Shadowfell have wrong stat modifiers. Some of these were fixed in the MM, but in the Wyrmpriest entry it still says that a 9 stat is a +0 modifier, and 17 is a +4. I'm assuming these are just errors, as the slinger has the right values, but they're not mentioned in the errata lists.

I think I can explain this one (along with getting ninjad in the process): the Wyrmpriest is level 3 and gets +1 to a lot of rolls because of it. So a strength check is +0 (-1 from the 9 strength and +1 from level).

I'm having a tougher time trying to see where they came up with the kobold attack values.

They are arbitrarily assigned. There are some charts on pages 184 and 185 of the DMG that tell you how hard a level X monster of type Y should hit. The monsters in the DMG don't always follow that chart perfectly, but it's a pretty good fit.

 

[Mengu]

This article explains why monsters in 4.0 don't necessarily follow strict creation rules as they did in 3.x:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20080723a

 

[Lazybones]

Thanks for the replies. After I posted I did see in the intro to the MM how they added the (level*1/2) to the stat blocks. That makes sense now.

I'm not sure I agree about the arbitrary bonuses, but that's more of a philosophical gripe with 4e. Much of it seems like the way that Oblivion would automatically scale creatures and loot to match your level, such that a giant rat you encounter with 20th level would be as tough as a dragon.

But it's clear, at least. I remember the days of arbitrary monsters from 1e and 2e and I guess I got a bit spoiled with 3e where everything could be constructed from the same set of rules. I did read the linked article and I see where they're coming from but I guess the 3e system never seemed to be that complicated to me.

 

[DracoSuave]

Given the number of new monsters they've come out with -already- with the new statblock system, more efficient monster creation is a -good- thing. Cause if it's -really- easy for most DMs, those DMs can then make crazy new beasties for their players. It's -good- when players don't hold -all- the cards.

 

[Pielorinho]

Given the number of new monsters they've come out with -already- with the new statblock system, more efficient monster creation is a -good- thing. Cause if it's -really- easy for most DMs, those DMs can then make crazy new beasties for their players. It's -good- when players don't hold -all- the cards.

I agree. Admittedly, so far I'm prepping for 1-2 level PCs, and admittedly I've introduced no classed creatures yet; however, I'm finding combat prep to be MUCH easier now than it was in 3e. I think the tremendous amount of time it took to create a new monster in 3e is part of what made me burn out on DMing.

Daniel

 

[Asmor]

Given the number of new monsters they've come out with -already- with the new statblock system, more efficient monster creation is a -good- thing. Cause if it's -really- easy for most DMs, those DMs can then make crazy new beasties for their players. It's -good- when players don't hold -all- the cards.

Agreed. I've made some pretty cool, and really complex, monsters very, very quickly. Of course, it helps to have tools that take care of the tedious stuff so all you need to do is come up with powers...