D&D 5E [UA Fighter Archetypes] The Rapid Strike Problem

[Hawk Diesel]

So 3 out of the 4 fighter archetypes had Rapid Strike as a feature for level 15. I don't know if this was due to lack of creativity, or the sense that they hit upon an ability that should be placed in the main fighter progression rather than in the archetype, but either way it bothers me. Each archetype should be unique compared to each other. Outside of this, it's really only one other flaw I've found with the Fighter UA (the other being the the Arcane Archer should only expend uses of their magic arrow if it successfully hits).

So I was wondering two things:

1) Does anyone else take issue with this?

2) What replacement abilities have individuals homebrewed to make each fighter archetype completely its own?

I've only begun pondering the possibilities, but I'd like to get a feel where the community sits with this and the direction others have taken.

Ideas I've Come Up With:

Knightly Charge
At level 15, you have learned to put your momentum behind you blows. If you move at least 20' in a straight line immediately before taking the attack action, your next successful attack before the end of your turn deals an additional 5d6 damage. This damage increases to 5d8 if you have advantage or are using a mount.

Once you have used this ability, you must finish a short or long rest to use it again.

Samurai Dash
At 15th level, you can dash through your foes supernaturally quick while making a deadly attack. As an action, you can move up to your speed and move through your enemies' spaces without penalty. This movement does provoke attacks of opportunity. After this movement, you make a single attack roll and apply it to any enemy whose space you moved through. Each target that would be hit by the attack takes your normal weapon damage + half your fighter level (rounded up). You can only hit each target with this attack once, and you cannot end your movement in a creature's space.

If you are hit and take damage by any attacks of opportunity during this movement, your damage against each target increases by +4 per successful attack made against you.

Once you have used this ability, you must wait a short or long rest before you can use it again.

Rapid Shot
Starting at 15th level, you learn to increase the quickness of your shots. When using the attack action with a ranged weapon, you can make an additional ranged weapon attack as a bonus action.

 

[Xeviat]

I'm going to say that I didn't like Rapid Strike ... but mostly because I can't remember what it was without checking.


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[Dualazi]

I also have issue with it, not only due to its blandness as you pointed out, but also because it just doesn't fit with archetypes like the knight. I'd rather they give it to the fighter base class (and preferably early in the career) and make something more interesting for the subclasses.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

So 3 out of the 4 fighter archetypes had Rapid Strike as a feature for level 15. I don't know if this was due to lack of creativity, or the sense that they hit upon an ability that should be placed in the main fighter progression rather than in the archetype, but either way it bothers me. Each archetype should be unique compared to each other. Outside of this, it's really only one other flaw I've found with the Fighter UA (the other being the the Arcane Archer should only expend uses of their magic arrow if it successfully hits).

So I was wondering two things:

1) Does anyone else take issue with this?

I don't really have an issue with it. It's not a great 15th level ability, but it's better than some (Relentless and Improved Critical II). The meat of the Knight, Samurai and Archer is elsewhere.

 

[Li Shenron]

I agree, it would be much more interesting if each archetype had its own unique abilities.

It is ok for a very few (but otherwise important) mechanics to be re-used, such as spellcasting rules and Extra Attack, but that should be the case for features that are the starting point of something major: spellcasting rules are the base framework but then each class has its own spells, Channel Divinity defines the mechanics but the actual powers depend on class (Paladin or Cleric) and subclass (even if some overlap in those is not a problem).

It is not so nice to see the same "terminal" feature (i.e. a feature that ends with itself, and it not the starting point of other choices) being used to "fill" several subclasses, which then become only marginally different. It also sets a precedence for bloating the game with options that don't really matter. We're very far from it, but 3e was swamped under an endless release of cloned prestige classes that filled tons of books but often had one single small unique feature (and in some cases, not even one).

 

[Barolo]

It is just an UA, and they expect people to give them feedback. So I would assume they are actually trying to get a feel of whether we gamers care or not about repeated features on different subclasses for the same class. I would not be surprised if we were to see in an UA the same feature in subclasses for different classes too.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

So as I was falling asleep last night, I thought of an example. Here's an ability I might use to replace the Knight's Rapid Strike ability:

Knightly Charge
At level 15, you have learned to put your momentum behind you blows. If you move at least 20' in a straight line immediately before taking the attack action, your next successful attack before the end of your turn deals an additional 5d6 damage. This damage increases to 5d8 if you have advantage or are using a mount.

Once you have used this ability, you must finish a short or long rest to use it again.

********

The wording can be improved / made less clunky, but what do people think? How else might Rapid strike be replaced for the other archetypes?

 

[Blue]

Agree with your general premise - subclasses should each evoke a different feel and encourage different play-styles. Common mechanics should be reserved for the base class.

If we want to leave it in with one, it seems to have a lot of synergy with the Samurai's Fighting Spirit so that it's regularly useful. On the other hand, Samurai seems to have an flavorful replacement to match the common myths around their first strike. Maybe something like: Your first attack of a combat has advantage, and if it hits it is automatically a critical hit.

It's gained a lot later than the assassin ability for crits on surprise and at a point that precludes heavy multiclassing, I don't mind it begin guaranteed in every combat (if you hit). Plus it's only the first attack, the assassin feature would make all of your first round attacks on someone surprised into crits which would also affect their sneak attack damage.

Sharpshooter I could go for the classic two arrows. As a bonus action you may load a second piece of ammunition and make gain a second attack against the same or adjacent target when you make a ranged attack using a weapon that takes ammunition. You have disadvantage on both attacks.

Note that this is almost Rapid Strike. It's been reduced to ranged attacks with ammo only and limited targetting, but instead of only triggering when you have advantage, you can trigger it any time and take disadvantage. That would cancel advantage to be similar to Rapid Strike, but also used more often. Heck, if you already have disadvantage already you might as well which does make it a moderate power up. (Technically it also ignores the loading property of crossbows, but a 14th level fighter with 3 attacks probably isn't using anything where the loading property is getting in the way.)

Knight - goes back and forth between mount bonuses but also being defender-y. Here's a mount idea, but a marking/protection idea could fit as well.

Wartrained Rider: When you are riding a controlled mount (phb 198) you may spend a bonus action to give it one attack, and it may take a reaction to make opportunity attacks. When you are riding an independent mount (pg 198) you both go on the higher of the two initiatives, and both you and your mount can use the Help action on the other as a bonus action.

 

[gyor]

So as I was falling asleep last night, I thought of an example. Here's an ability I might use to replace the Knight's Rapid Strike ability:

Knightly Charge
At level 15, you have learned to put your momentum behind you blows. If you move at least 20' in a straight line immediately before taking the attack action, your next successful attack before the end of your turn deals an additional 5d6 damage. This damage increases to 5d8 if you have advantage or are using a mount.

Once you have used this ability, you must finish a short or long rest to use it again.

********

The wording can be improved / made less clunky, but what do people think? How else might Rapid strike be replaced for the other archetypes?

I like that.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I've taken issue with it, and as written there are a few oddities about it.

For example, it doesn't say what happens to the bonus attack if the enemy is granting advantage. Technically by RAw, you can make 2 attacks with advantage, 3rd normal, followed by a bonus with advantage.

If my current samurai starts getting close to 15 I'll want to look into things that people have come up with. I like something that plays with their First Strike mythos and I remember in the UA discussion thread someone posted a really powerful line attack for a more anime-style Samurai moment.

Oooh, what about something that let an enemy make an attack against you, but in return you got a bonus to damage on your attacks against them until the end of your turn. Representing the Samurai dueling moment of trading blows with an enemy, but they get the worse end of it. That could be an incredibly nifty ability with a serious choice component within it to risk that attack against you.