D&D 5E Two Weapon Fighting vs the Monk's Bonus

[Zaukrie]

I've only played 5e a few times, and somehow no one ever really used two weapon fighting much.....now I am DMing a group with a two weapon fighter and a monk.

It seems odd, to me, that anyone can make a second attack as a bonus action, and the monk's thing is a bonus action attack using unarmed strike. That is always worse at low levels than doing so with most any weapon, isn't it?

Maybe I'm just not thinking about this right, but the monk seems to be getting not much compared to anyone else using two weapon fighting.

And, I'm only talking low levels here. I get things change a lot at higher levels. And, no, I'm not interested in detailed min/maxing math.....this is more about, what does the monk really get that everyone else doesn't, when it comes to the bonus action of TWF vs the bonus action of unarmed strike?

 

[jaelis]

The monk gets to add his ability modifier to the damage, which is better than a generic TWF fighter.

 

[Laurefindel]

For one thing, the monk can make an unarmed strike as bonus action even when wielding a weapon with two hands (quarterstaff and spear for most, bigger weapons for the kensei), or without any hands at all for that matter.

Also, the monk gets to add its ability modifier to damage to its off-hand attack, which only fighters and rangers can do otherwise (and only if they take the two-weapon fighting style). Even them are restricted to light weapon while doing so until they can take the Dual Wielder feat.

 

[jgsugden]

I've only played 5e a few times, and somehow no one ever really used two weapon fighting much.....now I am DMing a group with a two weapon fighter and a monk.

It seems odd, to me, that anyone can make a second attack as a bonus action, and the monk's thing is a bonus action attack using unarmed strike. That is always worse at low levels than doing so with most any weapon, isn't it?

No. You may be missing thwe rule where OH attacks do not add the strength/dexterity bonus to damage.

The monk gets to add their dex bonus. 2 weapon fighters do not get to add their a ility score bonus to the OH attack absent a feat or ability that allows it.

Maybe I'm just not thinking about this right, but the monk seems to be getting not much compared to anyone else using two weapon fighting.

And, I'm only talking low levels here. I get things change a lot at higher levels. And, no, I'm not interested in detailed min/maxing math.....this is more about, what does the monk really get that everyone else doesn't, when it comes to the bonus action of TWF vs the bonus action of unarmed strike?

At very low levels, a monk does d8 with a quarterstaff, d4 with unarmed strike, and adds dex to both. With a 16 dex, that is 13 damage. A 2 handed greatsword wielder is doing 2d6+3 for 10 damage. A 2 weapon fighter using 2 shortswords doe 2d6+3 as well.

However, the monk is also more mobile, and soon can flurry to up the damage to d8+2d4+3*dex.

 

[TwoSix]

For one thing, the monk can make an unarmed strike as bonus action even when wielding a weapon with two hands (quarterstaff and spear for most, bigger weapons for the kensei), or without any hands at all for that matter.

Also, the monk get to add its ability modifier to its off-hand attack, which only fighters and rangers can do otherwise (with two-weapon fighting style). Even them are restricted to light weapon while doing so until they can take the Dual Wielder feat.

This. Only 3 classes in the PHB can get a bonus action attack with the Stat mod added at low levels; Fighter and Ranger can get it by investing their Fighting Style into it (a choice which depreciates at higher levels), and the Monk gets it for free. The monk can also use it with a 1d8 two-handed weapon as their main weapon (or possibly higher with Kensei or the UA class features article in play.)

Other classes can of course access this by spending a feat on Polearm Master, but it's still a nice niche for the Monk.

 

[Oofta]

Only fighters and rangers with Two-Weapon-Fighting style get to add their ability score modifier to their off-hand attack.

In addition, if fighting with two weapons requires that they must be light weapons unless you have the Dual Wielder feat.

That, and if you're using your bonus action for an attack you can't use it for anything else. You also can't be using a shield, etc.

So I see it now and then with rogues that use an off-hand weapon if they miss with their primary. I had a fighter that did it. But it's not particularly common.

 

[Zaukrie]

Thanks all for the quick replies. Mostly not a huge fan of the two weapon bonus action in teh first place, but that's a different discussion for sure.....

And yes, the fighter has TWF style...which I know hurts his AC.

It not being common must be why it never "bothered" me before (it doesn't bother me, I thought it odd).

 

[Laurefindel]

Thanks all for the quick replies. Mostly not a huge fan of the two weapon bonus action in teh first place, but that's a different discussion for sure.....

And yes, the fighter has TWF style...which I know hurts his AC.

It not being common must be why it never "bothered" me before (it doesn't bother me, I thought it odd).

In the end it boils down to:
All monks can do it (and do it well)
Only dedicated builds of fighters and rangers can compete, or characters taking a specif feat (polarm master)

 

[NotAYakk]

The monk's "MA" is similar to the fighter Fighting Style in power.

Fighting Style (2 weapon): 1d6+stat + 1d6+stat (7+2*stat), 16 AC (chain or scale)
Monk MA (1/4 staff): 1d8+stat + 1d4+stat (7+2*stat), 10+Dex+Wis AC

If the monk has 16 dex/14 wis/14 con, and the Fighter has 16 str/14 con, monk has 10 HP, fighter has 12 HP. Monk has 15 AC, Fighter has 16 AC at level 1.

By level 5, the Monk has 16 AC, deals 2d8+1d6+12 (24.5) in a round without per-encounter resources, and has 38 HP. The Fighter has 16-17 AC, deals 3d6+12 (22.5) in a round, and has 44 HP.

The Monk's Ki is another 5d6+20 (37.5) damage in attacks/rest (or other choices, like stunning strike). The Fighter's AS is another 2d6+8 (15) in attacks/rest. The Fighter also gets 1d10+5(11.5) HP per rest back.

All of this without subclasses.

 

[jaelis]

Thanks all for the quick replies. Mostly not a huge fan of the two weapon bonus action in teh first place, but that's a different discussion for sure.....

Just for interest, I've been playing that you have the option to combine both weapons in one attack, or to use one as a separate bonus action if you want to target an extra foe. It required a lot of other tweaks to make it work. For instance, monks can now attack with two weapons and then make a martial arts attack, so I had to take away short swords as monk weapons to keep their damage levels the same. And it changes the TWF feat and fighting style. But IMO it works well and is in the end simpler for everyone.