Two handed damage

[erik_the_guy]

As I understand it, versatile weapons add +1 to damage when used two handed, and two handed weapons do not gain any such bonus. In this case the bastard sword is a better two handed weapon than a great sword.
Bastard sword 2 handed: 1d10 + 1
Great sword 2 handed: 1d10
I understand that the bastard sword is a superior weapon, therefore it should be better, but bastard swords have always been the weapon a bit bigger than a longsword and smaller than a greatsword that could be used with the proper feat. In fact a longsword does about the same as the greatsword two handed (1d8+1 and 1d10, same average damage). The greatsword only deals more with powers that use 2[W] or greater since they do not multiply the +1.
Am I missing something? Maybe it would make sense if all two handed weapons benefited from the +1 damage feature.

 

[ravenight]

Well, I think the idea is that the two-handed weapons already assume you wield them that way in their damage. So the argument is more that you think the greatsword's base damage is too low compared to wielding a longsword two-handed. I'm not sure I agree that it should be higher - it is more random, and can gain bonuses from things like Reaping Strike in addition to the N[W] thing (which is a pretty big deal - lots of powers do multiples of weapon damage).

 

[erik_the_guy]

Well, I think the idea is that the two-handed weapons already assume you wield them that way in their damage. So the argument is more that you think the greatsword's base damage is too low compared to wielding a longsword two-handed. I'm not sure I agree that it should be higher - it is more random, and can gain bonuses from things like Reaping Strike in addition to the N[W] thing (which is a pretty big deal - lots of powers do multiples of weapon damage).

The greatsword and the bastard sword do the same amount with N[W] attacks. So even at high levels the lighter bastard sword is a better two handed weapon than the greatsword. Also, since the bastard sword is versatile, it gets all the bonuses of reaping strike etc when used two handed.
But you are right that greatsword beats longsword at high levels with its higher damage dice for N[W] attacks.

 

[Zsig]

Keep in mind also that even though you are using the Bastard Sword two-handed, it's NOT a two-handed weapon.

Yes, but, what does that mean?

It means that, for the purposes of feats and powers that works for two-handed weapons only (or that have better effects with a two-handed weapon) the bastard sword wielded in two hands does not qualify for the extra bonus.

Examples of such feats and powers includes (and are not limited to) respectively, Power Attack and Reaping Strike (fighter at-will).

All that being said, yes Greatswords are weak imho.

 

[Badkarmaboy]

Two handed weapons deal +1 damage just like a versatile weapon being used two handed. Note that it states you can deal the extra damage because it's being used as a two handed weapon. (PH 215)



A small creature cannot use a two handed weapon and must use a versatile weapon two handed. They DO NOT deal extra damage
(PH 217)

 

[erik_the_guy]

Keep in mind also that even though you are using the Bastard Sword two-handed, it's NOT a two-handed weapon.

Yes, but, what does that mean?

It means that, for the purposes of feats and powers that works for two-handed weapons only (or that have better effects with a two-handed weapon) the bastard sword wielded in two hands does not qualify for the extra bonus.

Examples of such feats and powers includes (and are not limited to) respectively, Power Attack and Reaping Strike (fighter at-will).

All that being said, yes Greatswords are weak imho.

Right, my mistake. For some reason I thought that versatile weapons counted as two handed when wielded as such. But I agree with you, greatswords deal poor damage. compare to other two handed weapons, many of which have more damage and high crit, barely worth while for a mere +1 prof bonus.

 

[Ioreck_Thorinback]

There's a feat that gets your damage for 2h weapons up for fighters, plus you get to use arm gear (either damage increase or damage reduction).

Really, we'll have to wait for more rules. I hope they do something similar to what they did for the illusionist wizard for the fighter ! A few more 2h weapon powers only, a new 2h weapon magic ability, a new heroic feat.....

 

[erik_the_guy]

Two handed weapons deal +1 damage just like a versatile weapon being used two handed. Note that it states you can deal the extra damage because it's being used as a two handed weapon. (PH 215)



A small creature cannot use a two handed weapon and must use a versatile weapon two handed. They DO NOT deal extra damage
(PH 217)

Neither of these parts state explicitly that 2-handed weapons deal the additional damage, only versatile weapons that are used 2-handed. Also you would think that there would be a point in the book that states "2 handed weapons deal an additional 1 damage" somewhere other than the description of versatile weapons. The other two handed weapons seem to deal balanced damage without this bonus too, only the greatsword sucks (Halberd and Longspear also have d10 damage, but they get reach and multiple weapon types).

 

[Saeviomagy]

As I understand it, versatile weapons add +1 to damage when used two handed, and two handed weapons do not gain any such bonus. In this case the bastard sword is a better two handed weapon than a great sword.
Bastard sword 2 handed: 1d10 + 1
Great sword 2 handed: 1d10

Imagine it this way:
The bastard sword wielder has taken a feat that gives him a +1 to damage with a single weapon within a category.

It's just like having weapon focus, but it gives less of a bonus at higher tiers and restricts him to using only ONE weapon out of the light blade category.

 

[Zsig]

Two handed weapons deal +1 damage just like a versatile weapon being used two handed. Note that it states you can deal the extra damage because it's being used as a two handed weapon. (PH 215)



A small creature cannot use a two handed weapon and must use a versatile weapon two handed. They DO NOT deal extra damage
(PH 217)

I'll refer you to this thread:
Official Unofficial 4E Rules FAQ

Under " -=Fighter=- "