Turning + Radiant/Necrotic damage

[Ktulu]

With seeing the Vampire mini in the DoD preview, I'm interested in the Vulnerable 10 radiant damage quality. If this is a sign of how they'll handle vulnerabilities in 4e, I'm very excited.

That allows for the turning ability to do X damage with the radiant ability (allowing for turning to, speculation here, affect more than just undead). Things with vulnerable radiant 10, would take an extra 10 damage on top of that. It minimizes the time and math on turning, and simplifies the vulnerabilities. For instance, something with vulnerable cold in 3.5 takes double the damage, which isn't much from a ray of frost, but is a killer from cone of cold. Having vulnerable XX, would just add some damage to the attack. This would make it easer on a DM when he wants to throw a frost giant at the party, but is afraid of the wizard's fireballs. Much easer to predict the damage output rather than doubling a ton of dice and such.

Thoughts?

 

[mach1.9pants]

That makes real good sense for a way to do damage vulnerability.
But I am not sure that turning will do 'radiant' damage. That is not turning that is blasting! Maybe, tho, turning will be completely dif to previous versions

 

[Ktulu]

The reason I suspect this is due to multiple books in the later 3.5 era that gave an alternate turning that just did damage rather than making the undead run away. It's also easier than consulting a chart. You just make an attack roll and if you hit the enemies defense he takes the damage. Pretty simple and allows for a good per encounter ability.

Ktulu

 

[Snarls-at-Fleas]

I think turning would be something closer to attack against Will defence and effects depending on the results. So cleric can wipe the affected undead on critical roll or even (Pelor forbid!) bolster them on a natural 1. All the rest makes them afraid of the cleric, so they cannot approach him, but not run (oh please - not run!).

 

[Novem5er]

If I recall, in the Zombies preview on DnDInsider, they mentioned that turning will keep the zombies at bay, but it wont send them running deeper into the dungeon. They recognized that it wasn't very useful to have your undead opponents scatter to the wind, only to jump out and attack you again deeper in the dungeon.

I expect that is why later, alternative turning in 3.5 allowed for damage.

It would be interesting if 4e turning did something like this:

Turning now creates a 20' circle around the cleric. Undead caught within the circle take X Radiant damage and is pushed outside the circle. Any undead who enter the circle take X Radiant damage. The cleric can maintain the circle as a Swift/Standard.

A system like this would be easy to use. Giving undead a vulnerability to Radiant damage would definitely URGE them to not approach a Cleric without saying absolutely that they cannot.

 

[Warbringer]

Turning now creates a 20' circle around the cleric. Undead caught within the circle take X Radiant damage and is pushed outside the circle. Any undead who enter the circle take X Radiant damage. The cleric can maintain the circle as a Swift/Standard.

Agreed. Nice proposition thouuh need an attack: Will?

 

[Voss]

That makes real good sense for a way to do damage vulnerability.
But I am not sure that turning will do 'radiant' damage. That is not turning that is blasting! Maybe, tho, turning will be completely dif to previous versions

Actually, given a general feeling out there that turning (as it is in 3e) is wrong (and, frankly, given the way undead hit dice explode at high levels and the pile of divine feats, it is) and some of the late 3.5 variants which did make turning into damage, I suspect that it will be a damage based thing of some sort.

Its quick and easy and doesn't get involved in a subsystem, which pretty much seems to be the hallmark of the 4e design philosophy. So turning as a per encounter power that does [X*level*cha bonus] Radiant damage (or something similar) to undead wouldn't shock me at all.

 

[Peter LaCara]

Agreed. Nice proposition thouuh need an attack: Will?

Seems reasonable. 1/2 lvl + cha bonus vs Will. That makes stronger willed undead like vampires and liches harder to turn without having to add in some arbitrary "turn resistance" number, which is nice.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

If I recall, in the Zombies preview on DnDInsider, they mentioned that turning will keep the zombies at bay, but it wont send them running deeper into the dungeon. They recognized that it wasn't very useful to have your undead opponents scatter to the wind, only to jump out and attack you again deeper in the dungeon.

I expect that is why later, alternative turning in 3.5 allowed for damage.

It would be interesting if 4e turning did something like this:

Turning now creates a 20' circle around the cleric. Undead caught within the circle take X Radiant damage and is pushed outside the circle. Any undead who enter the circle take X Radiant damage. The cleric can maintain the circle as a Swift/Standard.

A system like this would be easy to use. Giving undead a vulnerability to Radiant damage would definitely URGE them to not approach a Cleric without saying absolutely that they cannot.

I really like that idea. It could also work for other things too, if we say bring in the idea of Holy Places, so a church could give off Radiant Energy to protect villagers from the hordes of zombies newly risen from the graveyard, etc.

 

[xechnao]

IMO turning should only affect undead with no intelligence. This way makes sense.
Radiant damage is a different story. Non intelligent undead should not be vulnerable to radiant damage IMO unless they were made and are sustained with the aid of shadow (for example necromantic rituals).
OTOH vampires should be vulnerable as their "diseased" or cursed condition of vampirism.