Traps: making them and setting them

[Ranes]

I don’t know how long it takes a rogue to set a trap. I know how long it takes to ‘construct’ the trap (to quote from the DMG) using Craft (trapmaking) and I think that process includes setting setting the trap. But I can’t believe Craft (trapmaking) determines how long it takes simply to set a trap.

Falstaff wants to set a razor wire trap across a hallway, one that’s good enough to catch out a rogue like him who isn’t carefully watching his step. In other words, he would like to create the CR1 Razor Wire Trap described on p 71 of DMG 3.5. A first level rogue, Falstaff has 13 Int and 4 ranks in Craft (trapmaking), for a total Craft (trapmaking) modifier of +5.

Having adventured for some time, he has 900 gp at his disposal and, having no shame, he spends 55gp on M/W artisan’s tools (for +2 on the Craft skill check) and 133.33gp on the raw material (to which I’ll return later). Trusting no one and working alone, he consistently rolls 20 for commendable weekly skill checks of 27. Multiplying this result by the craft DC of 20 shows that he makes 540sp worth or 13.5% of the trap per week (based on the 400gp price of the trap). Therefore, he takes roughly 7 weeks, 5 days to complete the task. If only he was nimble fingered...

Surely it takes so long, because he’s actually making the razor wire and pin-hooks from the aforementioned raw material, beginning with the task of smelting some ore. He’s only a modestly talented first level trap maker but he can’t be taking nearly two months simply to set this one trap.

If he is so inclined, he can buy the trap’s components off the shelf for 400gp. But then how long does it take him to set it?

I’m tired. Have I missed something? Does there need to be an Enable Device skill? How useful is Disable Device as a guide to the required time and DC of the task of setting a trap?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Trap setting is one of those things that D&D doesn't do all that well (in the RAW, anyway).

Sorry I can't be more helpful than that ...

 

[Ranes]

Thanks. It's helpful of you to confirm my suspicion.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Thanks. It's helpful of you to confirm my suspicion.

So, now that we've got that out of the way, here's a couple of potential house rules to think about:

1. Craft (Traps) is actually used, like you said, to create actual "trap kits" out of really raw materials. If you've already got the "trap kit", you set a simple trap (like a tripwire, or a "can that rattles when the door is opened") by making a separate Craft (Traps) roll. This sets the Search and Disable Device DCs.

A. Setting a simple trap has a DC of 15, and takes 1 minute. It automatically has Search and DD DCs of 20.
B. Setting a simple trap has a DC of 15, and takes 1 minute. It automatically has Search and DD DCs of 20. For every (5 or 10) points you beat the setting DC, increase the Search and DD DC by (1 or 2).

2. Craft (Traps) is actually used to create actual traps out of really raw materials. It conveys no particular ability to set "ad hoc" traps. Instead, use Disable Device as the key skill. Otherwise, proceed as above.

Variants:

I. With #2 above, having 5 or more ranks in Craft (Trapmaking) gives a +2 bonus to Disable Device rolls made to set an "ad hoc" trap.

II. With either of the above, having 5 or more ranks in Survival gives a +2 bonus to whichever check so long as the trap is one which hampers movement (pit trap, noose, etc.)

III. With either of the above, having 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (Nature) gives a +2 bonus to whichever check so long as the trap is being set in a natural location.

IV. With either of the above, having 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) gives a +2 bonus to whichever check so long as the trap is being set indoors.

 

[Ranes]

I'm happy to use house rules like those. (In fact, I was thinking along the lines of 2.) I like your suggested variants. Thanks for giving the issue your consideration.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The reason I might be tempted to go with #1 over #2 is that Craft skills may be attempted untrained.

Thus, anyone can try to set a tripwire.

Disable Device cannot be used untrained.

EDIT:

I'm also tempted to increase the DC to set a trap successfully to 20.

I'd then add, "If you fail by 4 or less, the trap is set, but the Search and DD DCs are reduced by 5. If you fail by 5 or more but less than 10, the trap is set, but the Search and DD DCs are reduced by 10. If you fail by more than 10, you suffer a mishap. Generally, a mishap ruins the materials used to make the trap, if applicable, and subjects you to the traps effects."

EDIT 2: Son of Edit:

Doing so has the effect that moderately competent people almost always get their trap set.

For instance, take a Ranger 2 with average intelligence. He wants to set a noose trap along a trail. He gets +2 from Knowledge (Nature) and +2 from Survival. He can take 10 and get a 14, otherwise untrained. This results in a crude, but effective, noose trap: Search and DD DC = 10.

On a good roll, he can get up to a 24 - enough to set the trap normally, not enough to get any particular bonuses.

On a bad roll, he catches his own foot in the noose while setting it up, and hangs himself upside down from the tree.

 

[Ranes]

Okay, now you've entered the realm of giving the matter more thought than I had. I hadn't considered the issue of being trained or untrained. Point taken.

 

[Evilhalfling]

Patryn, nice work
*yoink*
# 1b. + edit, is my favorate. The synergies make it to complex and I may add in ad hoc. but wont be added to my HR document.

 

[Evilhalfling]

8. Skills-
Using Craft skills assumes ‘Taking 10’ If you spend 1.5 the base materials cost
and time then you receive a +4 to the result.

Craft (Traps) as above is actually used, to create actual "trap kits" out of really raw materials. This is based on DMG trap pricing. If you've already got the "trap kit", you set a simple trap (like a tripwire, or a "can that rattles when the door is opened") by making a separate Craft (Traps) roll. This sets the Search and Disable Device DCs.

B. Setting a simple trap has a DC of 20, and takes 1 minute. It automatically has Search and DD DCs of 20. For every 5 points you beat the setting DC, increase the Search and DD DC by 1.if you fail by less than 5, reduce Search and DD DCs to 15.

There are prolly multiple variations in of this in such books as Qunit thieves, Complete adventure and even Heros of high favor halflings .
Can anyone post a comparison?

 

[Ranes]

Then again...

From the SRD:

DISABLE DEVICE (INT; TRAINED ONLY)

Device: Difficult; Time: 2d4 rounds; Disable Device DC: 20; Example: Disarm a trap, reset a trap

Action: The amount of time needed to make a Disable Device check depends on the task, as noted above. Disabling a simple device takes 1 round and is a full-round action. An intricate or complex device requires 1d4 or 2d4 rounds.

reset a trap... reset a trap...

reset = set

2d4 rounds

Oh.

The standard issue ranger's cross-classing then.