Transmutation Spells and armor

[Kylas]

Do spells like Girralon's Blessing and Lesser holy Transformation adjust with your armor the way Polymorph and Enlarge do. Former grows you a pair of arms latter grows you a pair of wings among other things.

I ask this because I'm a full plate toting cleric and my Dm says my armor doesn't allow room for extra limbs so the spells work i just can't use them unless i undress or buy special armor. This doesn't seem to be the way the spells are meant to work.

Also are there any general rules for transmutation spells that I could point to?

 

[FEADIN]

It's written in the spell description but I don't remember what it says (Spell Compendium version).

 

[Starbuck_II]

Do spells like Girralon's Blessing and Lesser holy Transformation adjust with your armor the way Polymorph and Enlarge do. Former grows you a pair of arms latter grows you a pair of wings among other things.

I ask this because I'm a full plate toting cleric and my Dm says my armor doesn't allow room for extra limbs so the spells work i just can't use them unless i undress or buy special armor. This doesn't seem to be the way the spells are meant to work.

Also are there any general rules for transmutation spells that I could point to?

Magic Armor resizes, but I guess it doesn't say anything about extra arm holes.
Actually, don't wiorry about lesser holy transformation; you don't need the wings to fly by the spell desctiption.
You can just fly 60 feet (good rating) (no wings required by it).

So the only one the DM can disallow by the rules is the arms.
Full plate has its own issues (must be specially made).

 

[NewJeffCT]

Magic Armor resizes, but I guess it doesn't say anything about extra arm holes.
Actually, don't wiorry about lesser holy transformation; you don't need the wings to fly by the spell desctiption.
You can just fly 60 feet (good rating) (no wings required by it).

So the only one the DM can disallow by the rules is the arms.
Full plate has its own issues (must be specially made).

If it's magic armor that resizes, I would think it could "resize" itself to accommodate extra arms, IMO.

 

[cheshire_grin]

While the Spell Compendium version of Lesser Holy Transformation says nothing about growing wings, it does say you take on the physical appearance of a Protectar (presumably including the wings). Given that the non-Lesser version of the spell does not specify a fly speed (since you turn into a hound archon, which does not have wings and cannot fly), I would assume the wings are necessary for flight.


Neither spell specifies what happens with armor, but as both are Transmutation spells I don't think it's unreasonable that they would automatically modify non-magical armor when cast (and return it to its original form when they end). Magical armor I would expect to automatically accommodate the changed form, since it can resize and reshape itself to accommodate dwarves, elves, and raptorans etc equally easily.

 

[ElectricDragon]

Unless otherwise stated, magical armor and magical weapons do not re-size (this is in reference to sizes in the game S, M, L, etc.). I guess it could and would have to re-size to fit the different body proportions of different humanoid races, but I doubt that should include extra appendages. I would also argue that they do not re-shape either because magical barding does exist and horses cannot wear magical ogre armor because it is shaped wrong (for a humanoid rather than for a non-humanoid).

Then we get into the question as to whether a creature with 4 arms is actually humanoid or should it instead be a monstrous humanoid. Wings is a tricky case, since there are several species of humanoids with wings (winged creature template from Savage Species for one). I would say assuming the form of a normally winged creature (as opposed to just growing wings on your normal form) would allow the armor to accommodate you. Otherwise, you're out of luck.

Ciao,
Dave

 

[Starbuck_II]

Unless otherwise stated, magical armor and magical weapons do not re-size (this is in reference to sizes in the game S, M, L, etc.). I guess it could and would have to re-size to fit the different body proportions of different humanoid races, but I doubt that should include extra appendages. I would also argue that they do not re-shape either because magical barding does exist and horses cannot wear magical ogre armor because it is shaped wrong (for a humanoid rather than for a non-humanoid).

SRD says:
When an article of magic clothing or jewelry is discovered, most of the time size shouldn’t be an issue. Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer. Size should not keep characters of various kinds from using magic items.

Full plate is the exception as it must be specially made for a person.

 

[Shin Okada]

SRD says:
When an article of magic clothing or jewelry is discovered, most of the time size shouldn’t be an issue. Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer. Size should not keep characters of various kinds from using magic items.

Full plate is the exception as it must be specially made for a person.

Armor is not included to be "garments" in this case. While magical clothing and jewelries have no size category, magic armors (including shields) do have rules to randomly determine their size category.

 

[Vegepygmy]

I ask this because I'm a full plate toting cleric and my Dm says my armor doesn't allow room for extra limbs so the spells work i just can't use them unless i undress or buy special armor. This doesn't seem to be the way the spells are meant to work.

It's not. Your DM is just a dick.