Toughness Feat Alternatives?

[Oryan77]

The Dracolyte PrC in the Draconomicon requires the Toughness feat. I've never been a fan of that feat and it seems like a complete waste.

Does anyone have any suggestions for a feat that would be a good alternative for this PrC? Or does anyone have any house rules for the Toughness feat? Like maybe gain +3 HPs each level, or would that be overkill for the feat?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'm not a fan of the feat myself.

As I recall, though, aren't there some feats that showed up in other WotC sourcebooks that have Toughness as a prereq? You know, ones that may make it a decent choice?

Be that as it may, can you tell us (since I don't have the D-con in front of me) why they may have made Toughness a prereq for that PrCl?

 

[Alzrius]

I'd suggest replacing it with Improved Toughness (Complete Warrior; Libris Mortis; Monster Manual III/IV/V). The prerequisite is base Fort save +2, and it grants 1 hit point per level/Hit Die.

 

[Oryan77]

can you tell us (since I don't have the D-con in front of me) why they may have made Toughness a prereq for that PrCl?

I don't see any reason why Toughness is a prereq. The PrC is basically a cleric class that gains a new Domain, Alertness, a Wyrmling, Sleep & Paralysis Immunity, Darkvision & Low Light Vision, and can Summon a Dragon. So I figured changing the Toughness prereq wouldn't be a big deal since it doesn't seem to add to the flavor of the class in any way.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I can see Toughness for a PrCl like that- it represents the innate toughness of the critter in question. However, I can also see that it isn't necessarily the best one out there.

If you look in Dragon Magic, you can find a feat called Dragontouched. It lets you qualify for Draconic Heritage feats without being a sorcerer- possibly a good prereq.

That means you could get things like Draconic Skin (get some NatAC), Draconic Presence (cause fear effects when casting), Draconic Resistance (resistance to an energy type) and some others from Dragon Magic or Draconomicon (if any exist).

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I don't see any reason why Toughness is a prereq. The PrC is basically a cleric class that gains a new Domain, Alertness, a Wyrmling, Sleep & Paralysis Immunity, Darkvision & Low Light Vision, and can Summon a Dragon. So I figured changing the Toughness prereq wouldn't be a big deal since it doesn't seem to add to the flavor of the class in any way.

It's only a big deal insofar as the feat requirement is the "price" that needs to be paid to get access to all the goodies the prestige class has to offer. If you simply replace the Toughness requirement (a sub-optimal feat) with another feat that is more beneficial, then it kinda defeats the "cost" of the prerequisite.

I second the suggestion to use Improved Toughness instead.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

No alternative feat is needed or should be allowed. It is fairly common for Prestiege classes to have a crap feat as aprt of its requirement to make you pay something for it.

 

[Fallen Archon]

Masters of the Wild expands off of Toughness with three other feats:

Dragon's Toughness
Prereq: Base Fort +11
Benefit: +12 hp
Special: You can gain multiple times

Dwarf's Toughness
Prereq: Base Fort +5
Benefit: +6 hp
Special: You can gain multiple times

Giant's Toughness
Prereq: Base Fort +8
Benefit: +9 hp
Special: You can gain multiple times

Sure, they didn't get the update to 3.5, but my gm allows 'em anyway.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

By the time Draconomicon was in development, WotC was well aware that Toughness was among the weakest feats. It's likely that its inclusion in the prestige class in question was a deliberate balancing factor.

 

[Asha'man]

My version of the Toughness feat is as follows:
You gain +1 hp, and +1 hp per HD. So 2 hp for level 1, and 1 for every HD thereafter. This is retroactive, and essentially means that your HD becomes one size bigger. I don't use Improved Toughness or allow Toughness to be taken repeatedly, but I don't know if there would be any balance issues with doing so.