D&D 5E Tool modifier calculation

[WilliamCQ]

First I did make a search and the only result I found related to this topic isn't satisfactory IMO and I'd rather not post there to clutter the thread; which is for opinions while I have a question.

I mostly play AL (Adventurers League, when I play D&D of course) so the examples and intent of use is part of it but my question isn't limited to AL. Most of the tool uses I've noticed was for Thieves’ Tools; more than a few times witnessing its use, the proficiency bonus was added as well as the Dexterity modifier (Dex mod), the GM told the players it was so in a good portion of those uses (I witnessed in AL).

The addition of Dex mod to Thieves’ Tools seems logical to me (even ignoring the last paragraph). If you put 2 people that never played a musical instrument neither--really--seen someone play (ie: watched a close friend play up close for many hours) with 2 different dexterity levels, say a lumberjack & a watchmaker, it seems the dexterous one would have a non-negligible & compounding advantage over the other. That is if those 2 people would put just as much effort and get as much help for anything directly related to musical instruments, the more dexterous (not because more dexterity effort while in that context, thus from outside (that context)) would have an ongoing advantage.

Also I've seen so far in the Virtual Tabletop (VTT) tools I've used, the added (custom) proficiencies have a related ability.

If I'm right that in addition to proficiency bonus, there's also an ability modifier to apply to get the final Tool proficiency, please refer me to or post a list of tool with their related ability modifier.

Thank you kindly for your help.

 

[Illithidbix]

If you're looking for an official list of what ability modifiers apply to which tool proficiency...

... then you'll sadly be out of luck, I am almost entirely certain that such a list simply doesn't exist and it is entirely up to the judgment of the DM in a particular circumstance. In fact it is specifically mentioned with the list of tool proficiencies in the equipment section of the PHB/Basic Rules.

A tool helps you to do something you couldn’t otherwise do, such as craft or repair an item, forge a document, or pick a lock. Your race, class, background, or feats give you proficiency with certain tools. Proficiency with a tool allows you to add your proficiency bonus to any ability check you make using that tool. Tool use is not tied to a single ability, since proficiency with a tool represents broader knowledge of its use. For example, the DM might ask you to make a Dexterity check to carve a fine detail with your woodcarver’s tools, or a Strength check to make something out of particularly hard wood.

But yes, it is an Ability Check, so should use D20+ Relevant Ability Score Modifier + Proficiency modifier (if you have the relevant tool proficiency.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I might add that you almost always add an ability modifier to a check, attack, or save. The only contrary example that comes to mind is a death save.

 

[WilliamCQ]

I play in a league, and GMs rarely (if ever) check character sheets for discrepancies. So I'm setting it up while doing the best to monitor myself.

For now the only tools I've set myself are for Bards, which I use exactly the same as Performance (usually having expertise (and of course associated with Cha)), and for my Charlatan Rogue, using Thieves’ tools, Disguise kit, Forgery kit which I've associated respectively Dex, Cha, Dex. Do you approve?

Maybe one day I'll actually use a Gaming set, which many of my PCs are proficient in, I think those would be associated with Wis or Int, whichever is higher (Wis by default but card counting changes the game from an art into a system IMO). Do you approve?

Please make your suggestions for other Tools and try to give your opinion on such suggestions.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

It's worth noting that bards can't actually apply expertise to tool proficiencies. I believe the only tool proficiency that allows expertise is Thieves' Tools, and only rogues even have the option of doing that.

 

[Satyrn]

I play in a league, and GMs rarely (if ever) check character sheets for discrepancies. So I'm setting it up while doing the best to monitor myself.

For now the only tools I've set myself are for Bards, which I use exactly the same as Performance (usually having expertise (and of course associated with Cha)), and for my Charlatan Rogue, using Thieves’ tools, Disguise kit, Forgery kit which I've associated respectively Dex, Cha, Dex. Do you approve?

Maybe one day I'll actually use a Gaming set, which many of my PCs are proficient in, I think those would be associated with Wis or Int, whichever is higher (Wis by default but card counting changes the game from an art into a system IMO). Do you approve?

Please make your suggestions for other Tools and try to give your opinion on such suggestions.

As a player, it is not your role to determine these things ahead of time. Just list your proficiencies on your sheet. When you tell your DM you use a tool to do something, he'll tell you which ability to apply to the check. If he doesn't, ask him which one he wants you to use.

Because depending on what you attempt with the tool, you could use 6 different ability scores for 6 different checks in one session

 

[bedir than]

I stand corrected

 

[WilliamCQ]

As a player, it is not your role to determine these things ahead of time. Just list your proficiencies on your sheet. When you tell your DM you use a tool to do something, he'll tell you which ability to apply to the check. If he doesn't, ask him which one he wants you to use.

Because depending on what you attempt with the tool, you could use 6 different ability scores for 6 different checks in one session

I have > 15 PCs of all the classes and play with > 15 GMs off & online and I don't have the best of memory (read bad); the GMs I play with have many different players. I doubt the GMs have the time or attention to verify such things, they got their hands full with NPCs, storylines & map management. I will--try--to keep in mind when I use a tool that different abilities may apply, but what I can do for now is go through all my sheets and apply the abilities I think will fit most of the time.

It's worth noting that bards can't actually apply expertise to tool proficiencies.

Performance. Your Charisma (Performance) check determines how well you can delight an audience with music, dance, acting, storytelling, or some other form of entertainment.

How can a N/PC "delight an audience with music" without an instrument?

 

[Satyrn]

How can a N/PC "delight an audience with music" without an instrument?

That's exactly what a DM might decide, and thus insist on the tool use instead of the skill. Another may just say "use whichever you want" while another could decide that it's not your profiency with a guitar that matters, but your overall performance - the exaggerated power chords, your interactions with the audience and your whole persona on stage, etc.

But delighting your audience with music - if that is your goal - doesn't have to rely on expert playing

 

[Simonb1]

Hi all,

Talking about Musical Instrument proficiency and the Performance Skill, my thoughts as a player of a bard is.

If you have proficiently in both then you get a standard roll, else you count as non-proficient in Performance.

Yours

Simon