D&D 5E The somewhat lost thrill about undead

[Li Shenron]

Just to celebrate my 10k post on ENW, I want to discuss about the undead, one of my favourite type of D&D monsters, how I felt that slowly over the years they have kind of lost their appeal or thrill, and to gather suggestions about how to make them thrilling again in 5e.

YMMV and all that, but personally I used to find the undead a truly creepy and scary kind of monsters. Dragons are typically at the pinnacle of the monster hierarchy, and can be totally frightening to the characters, and so can other monsters. But they are never frightening to the players for sure Instead, there was something about the undead that actually frightened or at least unsettled me. It's got to do with this fundamental idea that being neither alive nor dead, they are not wholly 'natural' and therefore disturbing. Monsters are monstrous of course, but you can still see them as part of nature, while undead suggest that there is just something wrong about them being there in the first place... I know for a fact, that when I was very young, trying to watch my first scary movies, I was never frightened by the huge and violent alien monsters in sci-fi flicks, but instead I would almost freak out at movies with zombies and revenants (not so much ghosts and vampires for some reason).

I'm not sure if this was any better in older editions of D&D (it probably wasn't), but to me it seems that undead have become extremely normal, and as such they are hardly scary. Let's presume I'm just too old for that, but the fact is, they aren't even scary at all for the characters, PC and NPC:

- They are everywhere, in all settings, so that "undeath" is rarely anymore a defining theme for a fantasy world.
- There are always low-level undead which are hardly a threat to a single 1st-lv character and probably not even to a commoner.
- They used to have some really crippling special abilities, but gradually these have been removed from the game.
- They used to be evil, but they are now seen as tools for PC and NPC alike ("undead as technology"?).

So even if I assume we're all grown ups and won't be actually scared while playing the game the problem I have is that I actually can't seem to make undead scary to the characters populating the fantasy world of D&D!

It seems that the players constantly play their PCs in the presence of undead, as if they are just another kind of critters, as in "there's a rat infestation here, let's call a professional to spray some rat poison" -> "there's an undead infestation here, let's call a cleric to spray some Turn Undead". But there should be a huge difference in how people in a fantasy world see rats vs the bodies of dead people crawling out from the tombs!

Is it so that we had such overexposure to fantasy, that everything feels so normal? Is this all part of "losing the sense of wonder"?

How would you manage to bring back some scary or disturbing feeling when using undead in your game of D&D?

Does 5e give us better tools for such purpose?

 

[Blackwarder]

This is a great idea for a thread!

I think that the best way to "buff up" the undead as a creepy things for players as well as character is to deep a bit more into how they are created.

I need to teach a class now so I'll expand on it later today.

Warder

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I think it might just be over-exposure. Players have seen the walking dead too many times for it to be considered inherently weird. (I put "magic" into that same general category, and "magic items" as well.)

If you really want to hit the players hard, then make it happen to someone that they care about. Of course, that still relies on the players having formed an emotional connection with an NPC in the first place, so even that won't work on everyone.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Is it so that we had such overexposure to fantasy, that everything feels so normal? Is this all part of "losing the sense of wonder"?

How would you manage to bring back some scary or disturbing feeling when using undead in your game of D&D?

Does 5e give us better tools for such purpose?

I think it's mostly the former - undead in movies and TV are rarely scary even, any more, when they were terrifying fifteen years or more ago.

The ones that are scary are those which cannot be fought, or even seen, typically - intangible undead, who may also be invisible (except in mirrors and the like). Want scary undead? You're not going to get it with zombies/skeletons - but fancy ghosts, sure.

One issue that we've gained more and more tools to fight the undead, to see them, to hurt them, to stop them. Cutting down on that could help (turn undead should still work, but more turning, less hurting, I'd say).

 

[Blackwarder]

I think it might just be over-exposure. Players have seen the walking dead too many times for it to be considered inherently weird. (I put "magic" into that same general category, and "magic items" as well.)

If you really want to hit the players hard, then make it happen to someone that they care about. Of course, that still relies on the players having formed an emotional connection with an NPC in the first place, so even that won't work on everyone.

I think it's also part of undead growing less scary, mechanicly speaking, I might be wrong but I remember that back in 2e we hated encountering skeletons at lower levels because they had resistance to slashing and piercing damage and were immune to moral checks and effects, so they were tougher than other critters like goblins.

I think that what WotC is doing with 5e is a step back in the right direction, losing max HP is scary enough without it being too much like the old level drain of editions of yor.

Warder

 

[Aloïsius]

A few advices/ideas...

1) Don't use undead as mere critters, especially at low level. They should be either the "end level boss", or a threat the PC are forced to flee. NO SKELETON : those are clean bones golem, they are not frightening. Use zombie, ghouls, ghost, vampire, whatever has a face, but a distorted one.
2) No cleric. No turn undead. Or make your undead immune to that for whatever reason you want. Likewise, most magic (illusion, enchantment, cold, electricity spell) don't work, and neither do sneak attack, nor critical hit, nor massive damage.
3) Use hints about their absolute unnatural, horrific nature. The animals (horses, wolf companion...) of the PCs should be panicked even before the PCs can SEE the undead. The temperature drops suddenly. The light goes out (torch, candles, camp fires...).
4) Give the PC easy, tempting means to escape : the walking dead never walk when the sun is in the sky, they don't cross running water, stuff like that. Fear is useless if the PC can't succumb. If they have no choice but to fight, they will suppress their fear.
5) Give the PC demonstrations of the undead horrific strength : have a big scary monster/fighter be eaten alive by a swarm of undeads. Have a mob of panicked villagers being slaghtered by a single wraith/banshee.
6) Regeneration. They are already dead, you can't kill them. A severed hand become an animated claw that grasp your leg and lacerate your flesh. Once the zombi fall prone, he stand up from prone one round latter.
7) Contagion. For every undead you use, one way or the other. If they wound you, you become sick, you die, and you rise as an undead. If they don't eat you, they make you one of them.
8) NPC who were friend to the PC become undead. Not only they are now very dangerous, animated with the desire to kill and devour, but they are obviously suffering from an inhumane level of pain. Being an undead is not nice, it's not a power-up, it's not something you may want, unless you are absolutely mad : it's an horrific curse, the worst of all.
9) Only absolute destruction works, but it's absolute : once undead, never alive again. You can't be raised from the dead if you have been undead, even if your undead body has been destroyed. You soul is safe in the afterlife, but that's all.

Now, combine :
4+5 => the PCS lead the NPC to safety. Everyone is scared, but every one is safe. Then, something very bad happens : a solar eclipse, the river going dry or a bridge opened by some traitor, and everyone is slaughtered, while the PC are forced to flee for whatever plot reason (rather than dying trying to protect the crowd).

Use props. Turn literally the light off in the room (just keep the minimum amount necessary to read the dice), and turn it on when the PC are "safe". If it's in winter, open the window so that every one feel the cold. Use creepy music when undead are close, and horrific music when they are there.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

3) Use hints about their absolute unnatural, horrific nature. The animals (horses, wolf companion...) of the PCs should be panicked even before the PCs can SEE the undead. The temperature drops suddenly. The light goes out (torch, candles, camp fires...).

All good ideas, but I particularly second this one, it's really surprisingly effective even on veteran players because undead are so rarely presented this way in modern adventures/D&D, where they're usually seen as just another encounter. I turned some ghosts who were otherwise a fairly moderate-easy fight for the PCs into a terrifying encounter just by spooking the heck out of them with this kind of thing in a 4E game a few months back (also the ability to go through walls and stuff really freaked them out because they weren't expecting it and got split up by it and so on).

 

[howandwhy99]

Origin (by type)
History (they were alive once)
Current Activity (Since becoming undead)
Personality (some more than others)
(De)composition (rather than physiology)
Ecology (survival needs, lairs, territories, wandering/activity, organization, etc.)

Special Abilities / Magical Powers (attacks & defenses), items, possible relationships...
are all important too, but I take it these aren't what you're lacking for.

All of the above are Discoverables. Something the players can learn more of by choosing to do so in the game (not by reading the MM or adventure module). Keep them secret, but make the accessible through play.

Also, if the typical D&D undead monsters are overplayed for your group change them up and/or get some new ones.

 

[Blackwarder]

All good ideas, but I particularly second this one, it's really surprisingly effective even on veteran players because undead are so rarely presented this way in modern adventures/D&D, where they're usually seen as just another encounter. I turned some ghosts who were otherwise a fairly moderate-easy fight for the PCs into a terrifying encounter just by spooking the heck out of them with this kind of thing in a 4E game a few months back (also the ability to go through walls and stuff really freaked them out because they weren't expecting it and got split up by it and so on).

Morale checks for every follower and NPC in the party, including animals and such. A great idea!

Warder

 

[Ichneumon]

A major facet of the fear undead can cause is the prospect that you might become one of them. Skeletons and zombies may not be the most daunting combatants, but fall to them and some powerful necromancer just around the corner could turn you into another shuffling moaner. More powerful undead can turn you into one of them by draining your life.

If undead are just strewn around like any old monster, they won't be as scary as they should be. Instead, the presence of undead should mean trouble. There may be a formidable master around, or a family concealing their activities. A group of wraiths could stalk a city at night, murdering people in their sleep. Locking their inn room door won't do PCs much good against a foe that can travel through walls. Seeing how former compatriots are now hideous undead is an old trick, but can still be effective.

Descriptions of undead monsters in 1e described them as being unnatural entities that would terrify normal animals, who were responding to creatures who had no place in the world. A pack of ghouls might not be an overwhelming combat encounter for a group of PCs, but what if they were riding on horses near a cliff when the ghouls appeared? Each PC may need to make a Dexterity[Land Mounts] check or have their frightened horse panic and run - potentially right off the edge. If a tavern dog suddenly starts barking and howling at the top of the stairs that go down into the cellar, the regulars are liable to get nervous. Making undead scary often takes a bit of scene-setting and atmosphere, rather than plonking them down and hoping their combat abilities do the job.