The Slow Spell - Will Save?

[el-remmen]

Hey all, here's a question for ya. . .

Shouldn't the "Slow" spell requier a FORT save?

It is a transmutation spell, is not mind-effecting and its "sister" spell Haste which allows a save for the unwilling is a FORT save. . .

It just doesn't make sense to me that it is Will save since it doesn;t seem to have to do with "mental" stuff - I expected to see this corrected in the PHB errata - but no. . .

I am thinking of rule zeroing it - but wanted to collect some opinions. . .

I found a handful of other transmutation spell that require Will saves but they seem to be a change "of mind" like Awaken or Control Plants.

 

[hong]

If it required a Fort save, it wouldn't work on constructs and undead.

 

[Hypersmurf]

You could make it affect objects as well...

"See how slowly the table is moving?"
"Uh... it's not moving at all."
"My spell worked extra-well, then!"

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If it required a Fort save, it wouldn't work on constructs and undead.

Huh. So you can't Haste a vampire.

I never, ever noticed that.

-Hyp.

 

[el-remmen]

Huh?

Some undead have FORT save scores - - i would think that if it were a WILL save it should be mind effecting (tricking your mind into making your body react slowly) which would make undead immune. . .

Also, spells that effect objects (liek Animate Objects) require a Will save, so I am not sure I get Hypersmurf's point, either.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Some undead have FORT save scores...

Yes, but Undead are specifically immune to effects that have a Fort save, unless they can also affect objects.

They are not immune to Will save effects, but rather to effects with the [Mind-Affecting] descriptor. For example, Cure Light Wounds has a Will Save when used to injure Undead. It's not mind-affecting.

-Hyp.

 

[Destil]

My interpertation is that the spell alters time, and spells that do things like warp the fabric of reality require will saves (like planeshift, the time hop power, et cetera).

Haste's fort save, to my mind, is what's out of wack. I explain it as a holdover from the way haste worked in 2E and eariler: IMC it's Will, too.

 

[kreynolds]

An old Sage reply regarding Haste and undead creatures....

the undead descriptor says that since undead have no constitution that spells that require a fortitude save
don’t work on them unless they affect objects (like disintegrate)

Haste has a saving throw of "Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (harmless)"

does this mean that an Undead Lich (like there are any other kinds...) can NOT cast haste on itself since
haste requires a fortitude save, and is thus assumed to act on the physiology of the target, which Undead
like the lich don’t have?

The problem I am having is that some people say the (harmless) clause makes the save voluntary, (and
undead are only immune to spells that "require" a fort save) but page 150 of the PHB says that ALL saves are
voluntary so I don’t see how this could work that way.

Yes, undead can be hasted. The "harmless spells" reasoning is not exactly valid, but it fits the spirit of the rules.

Skip Williams
RPG R&D

So, if you follow this, the slow spell could work on them too.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Yes, undead can be hasted. The "harmless spells" reasoning is not exactly valid, but it fits the spirit of the rules.

"Spirit of the rules"? What is this "spirit of the rules" of which he speaks?

I want a page reference that justifies his answer, damn it!

-Hyp.