D&D General Deleted

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
Also, weren’t Clerics based off Van Helsing? Obviously they’ve changed a bit since their origins, but while they do have some Crusade-sequel flavor they definitely are more defined by their subclass.
only the turn undead ability was derived from van Helsing as vampire hunter, the whole militant heavy armour wearing cleric is straight Crusader, the original weapon restriction (bludgeon only) was from Bishop Odo of Bayeux who had taken vows to not draw blood.
 

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Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
Probably reading to much onto it. Even the real tales they're vased on you're kinda neglecting the reason why things happened.

Crusades started essentially because of raiding. Armies got into France and as far west as Vienna.

No one's gonna look good using modern lens.
That is not what caused the Crusades. The Umayyad invasion of southern France was not the cause of the crusades. The Crusades happened because of the Turkic migration into Anatolia, which took a lot of land from the Eastern Roman Empire. Alexios I Komnemos asked Pope Urban II for military aid against the Seljuks in exchange for recognizing the Pope as a patriarch again. The pope made up lies about the Muslims, promised amnesty to crusaders, and added in recapturing the holy land to motivate the Catholics to help the Byzantines.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
That is not what caused the Crusades. The Umayyad invasion of southern France was not the cause of the crusades. The Crusades happened because of the Turkic migration into Anatolia, which took a lot of land from the Eastern Roman Empire. Alexios I Komnemos asked Pope Urban II for military aid against the Seljuks in exchange for recognizing the Pope as a patriarch again. The pope made up lies about the Muslims, promised amnesty to crusaders, and added in recapturing the holy land to motivate the Catholics to help the Byzantines.

Aware the Byzantines requested aid.
Main point is no one's to innocent when it cones to imperialism.

But that's the backdrop of the Crusades raids in Anatolia, Crete has been recaptured, slave raids 8n the Mediterranean.

Look at a map the advance in tthe forner Ronan empire lasted around 1000 years.
 
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Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
No one tell op what Rogues are based on...
There is a world of difference between how Rogues and Paladins are depicted. Paladins are almost always depicted as good guys, and Rogues are at best depicted as Robin Hood or swashbuckling archetypes, but are normally darker themed (Thieves’/Assassins guilds). One is presented as moral, the other as usually immoral.
 

GrimCo

Hero
And now we enter slippery slope of philosophical debate about morality. Which i had plenty of in my years of playing d&d, especially in bygone eras where alignment as mechanic was still a thing. And usually when playing paladins.
 

Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
Aware the Byzantines requested aid.
Main point is no one's to innocent when it cones to imperialism.

But that's the backdrop of the Crusades raids in Anatolia, Crete has been recaptured, slave raids 8n the Mediterranean.

Look at a nap the advance int the firner Ronan empire lasted around 1000 years.
Your last sentence has too many typos for me to be able to understand it. I am aware that the Muslims conquered Roman territory (Africa, the Levant, and Egypt). They had controlled those lands for several hundred years by the time of the crusades. The Crusades were motivated by the Pope wanting to gain authority over the Orthodox and the Byzantines wanting to defeat the Sultanate of Rum. That does not justify the many atrocities committed by the crusaders.
 

There is a world of difference between how Rogues and Paladins are depicted. Paladins are almost always depicted as good guys, and Rogues are at best depicted as Robin Hood or swashbuckling archetypes, but are normally darker themed (Thieves’/Assassins guilds). One is presented as moral, the other as usually immoral.
I can play am assassin and thief, but not a religous knight? Under your logic in the OP, there isnt a real difference.
 

Reynard

Legend
Supporter
I don't understand the point of thevthread other than to stir controversy and get people fighting, + notwithstanding.

The OP themselves recognize that the Paladin is an Arthurian questing figure (who are more interested in courtly romance than muderhoboing) but then goes on to explain how we should think about them in more historical, racist terms just so we can be upset? I don't get it.
 

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