I base my paladins on the Church Knights in the Elenium books by David Eddings: warriors trained in battle and magic specifically to protect humanity from supernatural evil. The mundane evils of the world aren't a concern for my paladins. Sure, they might not be happy with thieves or corrupt officials, or marauding orcs or wandering ogres, but they'll not go out of their way to fight them.
-
Monstrous Menagerie II: Hordes & Heroes has a launch date! Mark your calendars for November 12th, 2024. 300+ more monsters for your D&D 2024, or Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition games, plus new horde rules and rules for heroic monsters who level up alongside you--whether they be allies, companions, or foes! Click here to follow on Kickstarter!
D&D General Deleted
- Thread starter Levistus's_Leviathan
- Start date
Tonguez
A suffusion of yellow
I think you need a broader understanding of history of both the real medieval and of the game.
Firstly the Matter of France is based primarily on the Ummayad invasion of Gaul in which the Paladins were the locals.
Also look up the Faris of Zakhara, Holy Warriors and essentially the Al-Qadim version of Paladin (ie both cultures are acknowledged)
Also if anything Cleric is what's based on Crusader/Templar.
Firstly the Matter of France is based primarily on the Ummayad invasion of Gaul in which the Paladins were the locals.
Also look up the Faris of Zakhara, Holy Warriors and essentially the Al-Qadim version of Paladin (ie both cultures are acknowledged)
Also if anything Cleric is what's based on Crusader/Templar.
Frozen_Heart
Hero
Oath of redemption paladin is specifically about going out of your way to not kill the bad guys. It has more hooks for pacifist gameplay than any other class.
And if 'making deals with devils' is a problem, I'm guessing you also have issues with the warlock class? A class where there is an entire subclass dedicated to making a deal with a fiend.
GrimCo
Hero
I've seen my share of lawful stupid paladins. In my younger edgelord days, played few of them and mostly modeled them after 40k inquisitors (Burn the heretic, kill the mutant, purge the unclean!). Even played paladin of Murica ( and don't get me started on semantic acrobatics around moral relativism i did to justify how he is still LG). But, older edition of paladins had role play restrictions as balancing mechanics to their power (case and point, 2ed ad&D paladin). In 3.x you had also role play restrictions (there were alternative paladins thou, like 3 evil ones, CG one, in one of the splatbooks) or you would fall and essentially become fighter without feats. So they forced you to play in certain way and punished you if you went against the stereotype.
5e moved away from that. Paladins are now just divine version of eldricht knight fighters. They have oaths, yes, but there isn't really mechanical implications of not following them to the letter. You can't really fall. You need to chose to become oathbraker. But if you chose other oath and don't really play up to the tenets of it, nothing happens. You are still Paladin with your chosen oath.
As a dm and a player, you have ability to portray and fluff the class any way you see fit. You choose what are Paladins in your world.
5e moved away from that. Paladins are now just divine version of eldricht knight fighters. They have oaths, yes, but there isn't really mechanical implications of not following them to the letter. You can't really fall. You need to chose to become oathbraker. But if you chose other oath and don't really play up to the tenets of it, nothing happens. You are still Paladin with your chosen oath.
As a dm and a player, you have ability to portray and fluff the class any way you see fit. You choose what are Paladins in your world.
Frozen_Heart
Hero
I've played in groups with a Paladin twice, and neither was even remotely like the 'lawful good crusader based' stereotype.
There was the insanely naive chaotic good halfling (oath of redemption), who grew to become the heart and soul of the party.
And there is currently an oath of the crown grung paladin, who is trying to find out who/what he actually is due to being raised by a noble house of humans and never encountering his own species.
Edit: Three times, one was so unpaladiny that I forgot to include him. A half elf oath of devotion dexadin, who you would would be 100% sure was a ranger if you weren't paying attention. He fought with longbow and light armour.
There was the insanely naive chaotic good halfling (oath of redemption), who grew to become the heart and soul of the party.
And there is currently an oath of the crown grung paladin, who is trying to find out who/what he actually is due to being raised by a noble house of humans and never encountering his own species.
Edit: Three times, one was so unpaladiny that I forgot to include him. A half elf oath of devotion dexadin, who you would would be 100% sure was a ranger if you weren't paying attention. He fought with longbow and light armour.
Levistus's_Leviathan
5e Freelancer
I have nothing against stories or characters that make Faustian bargains. I don’t have anything against Oathbreakers, either. I was bringing up Oathbreakers to show yet another potential connection to the Knights Templar in D&D. Warlocks are mostly unconnected to any historical reality and have a lot of nuance in D&D.
EzekielRaiden
Follower of the Way
Personally, I prefer to play Paladins as though the hype about them were true down to the marrow.
A truly good Paladin is one who would be willing to die alone, in the dark, where no one would ever know or see, to save the life of one person who doesn't "deserve" to be saved--someone society has marked as "evil" and "wrong".
They are the men and women who do what is considered "wrong" in order to do what they know is right. Because the Law written upon their hearts is stronger than any steel. My good blade carves the casques of men,/My tough lance thrusteth sure,/My strength is as the strength of ten/Because my heart is pure.
They're medieval Superman, whose greatest superpower is that he was taught to be a decent, earnest, loving human being no matter what. His Kryptonian physiology simply gives him more opportunities to apply his real superpower, just as Captain America's super serum is merely the adjunct to his abnormal kindness, compassion, and courage.
Lesser souls calculate. Deliberate. Defer. The Paladin saves, because it is her duty to save, no matter who, no matter what.
If such an ideal actually fulfilled--not merely projected onto ordinary people doing whatever the hell they like whenever the hell they like--is fruit of a poisoned tree, then I'm not really sure any story we ever tell can be clean.
A truly good Paladin is one who would be willing to die alone, in the dark, where no one would ever know or see, to save the life of one person who doesn't "deserve" to be saved--someone society has marked as "evil" and "wrong".
They are the men and women who do what is considered "wrong" in order to do what they know is right. Because the Law written upon their hearts is stronger than any steel. My good blade carves the casques of men,/My tough lance thrusteth sure,/My strength is as the strength of ten/Because my heart is pure.
They're medieval Superman, whose greatest superpower is that he was taught to be a decent, earnest, loving human being no matter what. His Kryptonian physiology simply gives him more opportunities to apply his real superpower, just as Captain America's super serum is merely the adjunct to his abnormal kindness, compassion, and courage.
Lesser souls calculate. Deliberate. Defer. The Paladin saves, because it is her duty to save, no matter who, no matter what.
If such an ideal actually fulfilled--not merely projected onto ordinary people doing whatever the hell they like whenever the hell they like--is fruit of a poisoned tree, then I'm not really sure any story we ever tell can be clean.
Levistus's_Leviathan
5e Freelancer
Granted, I’m not as familiar with French tales of Charlemagne’s Paladins as I am with Arthurian Legend, but it seems to me that Paladins, while being named after Charlemagne’s knights, take more inspiration from Arthurian Legend and the Crusades. Going on quests, killing monsters, etc. And that root isn’t much better. It’s still tied to the Christian power fantasy of a holy warrior fighting Muslims.
Regardless if other equivalents of Paladins based on real world groups from other religions have existed in D&D, it’s definitely not the basis or mainstream depiction of them. Artwork of Paladins wearing Middle Eastern armor or anything besides the regular Templar-style are absolutely not the norm or common.
Also, weren’t Clerics based off Van Helsing? Obviously they’ve changed a bit since their origins, but while they do have some Crusade-sequel flavor they definitely are more defined by their subclass.
Similar Threads
