The Neutral Good Thief (yes, he's a Rogue)

DragonShadow

First Post
New campaign character is a Neutral Good Rogue with ranks in Sleight of Hand, Bluff, and all of the Roguey skills that make Rogues known as Thieves. Since he is, in fact, a thief, he uses his SoH to steal things when he has the opportunity (which is great when there's a Paladin in the party).

Alright, that's the first thing.


The second thing; the first session had the party going into the sewers, and to make a long story short, we found a corpse with special items on it. I had dibs on the bracers he was wearing, and when I tried to put them on, I passed out (failed save). When I came to, after the rest of the party removed the bracers and woke me up, I immediately put them back on. Somewhat counter-intuitive, maybe, but we're opperating under the premise that anything strong enough to knock you out just by wearing it is worth a lot and has to be good. (Which is why I was also dragging along a mace that was trying to level drain anybody that picked it up.) The problem with this? The other party members not only stopped me, but took the bracers and wouldn't give them back/let me know where they were.


Third thing; back in the sewers, the party comes across an alcove where a female druidess is hanging out. She apparantly lives there. I was talking to her at the time, and then the Paladin steps up and Detects Evil, and she is. So, now we're in combat, but I was still trying to talk to the woman, and she hadn't done anything to us to deserve being attacked. The party attacked, I readied my bow and waited until she actually did something to me to jump in. My PC's brother was disabled and groggy, I tossed a potion at him (not really caring whether he would catch it, or if it actually hit him and knocked him out. The potion was both stolen, and regardless of his being my brother, he had no business being there.) He withdrew from combat the next round, and to shorten the rest of the story the rest of the party nearly died but the Druidess ran away. When she ran past me (I never entered combat) I did take one shot at her, because she spooked me running right past like that.


So now you tell me your opinion: Am I -not- Neutral Good for these things? Here are my arguements as to why I am.

1- I am not lawful, but neither am I truly chaotic. I might lean more towards chaos than law, but that's a thing about being neutral. There is, to be cliche, a method to my madness...but not enough to make me lawful.
2- Stealing is not an evil act. I don't steal bread from hungry babies, I steal gold from people I run into, or items from a shop that I can't afford. So far, all I've taken was healing potions that the party couldn't afford to pay for.
3- I am not Neutral (on the axis of good/evil) because I will not do anything that is EVIL. It may not be "right" or altruistic, but it's still not evil.

So, you tell me what you think. I'm curious as to what EN-Worlders would say.
 

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From that, you sound Neutral, not Neutral Good. Not doing Evil doesn't necessarily make you good. It makes you Not-Evil.

This could all vary by explanation, though. You could have left out stuff that would make me think otherwise. I mean, the fact that you've stolen kind of rules out Lawful, but it doesn't rule out Good -- but it doesn't rule in good just because you don't steal from babies, either.

In my mind (and this is just in my mind -- I'm not consulting the book) an evil person will go out of his way to do something evil, or will at the very least not concern himself much with the means to a desired end. A neutral person won't go out of his way to harm others, but he won't really try to help people unless a) they're his friends or b) it costs him little personally in terms of risk or expense. Essentially, a neutral person will do the expected thing -- a neutral farmer will help his friends raise a barn because they're his friends, and will offer food to a neighbor who's down on his luck because neighbors have to stick together and the farmer might have a bad harvest himself someday. That neutral farmer won't go out of his way, though, except with his friends.

A good person differentiates himself from a neutral person by the degree to which he is willing to go to help someone without direct expected benefit to himself. Right now, you haven't told us about anything that has you helping the helpless or fighting for the cause of the righteous without expecting a big reward. This doesn't make you Neutral and Not Good -- you might not have had a chance yet -- but it doesn't cement you into Good, from what I can see.
 

I think taking things from a shop without paying for them would be at best a neutral act. You can't justify that as being good IMO. Same with taking gold from people you meet. It causes harm to someone else for your own gain.
 

DragonShadow said:
2- Stealing is not an evil act. I don't steal bread from hungry babies, I steal gold from people I run into, or items from a shop that I can't afford. So far, all I've taken was healing potions that the party couldn't afford to pay for.
3- I am not Neutral (on the axis of good/evil) because I will not do anything that is EVIL. It may not be "right" or altruistic, but it's still not evil.
Regarding 3, I mostly agree with Takyris: you have to go out of your way to be altruistic in order to be Good.

Regarding 2, unless there are SERIOUS mitigating circumstances (see previous threads on Robin Hood types) stealing is Evil.

Why is stealing healing potions any better than stealing some other piece of property? It s not like you stole a piece of bread to keep your kids from starving.

It s not like you stole it to save the life of some poor peasant child bleeding to death in the street.

You stole it because you wanted it and because you could.
Generally, theft is a selfish act and Evil.

I m not criticizing your character concept or your portrayal of him, but I wouldn t try to become a Paladin anytime soon.
;)
 

DragonShadow said:
...The party attacked, I readied my bow and waited until she actually did something to me to jump in....

Let me guess. One (or more) of the other Players and/or the DM has suggested that your PC is EVIL.

Well...not seeming interested that an evil Druidess is trying to kill all your buddies and your brother doesn't make you seem overly 'good' to me.

If I was the Paladin in the party, I'd DETECT EVIL on you after something like that, haha.

If I was running your NG rogue, I probably would've attacked the druid the moment anyone in the party attacked the druid. Even if she was in the middle of giving me a recipe for Bumblebee Soup. My thinking is, Good alignment means you like/love/respect your fellow party members and want to kill their opponents, even if they were a little sword-happy about starting a battle.

A rogue should be allowed to rationize theft, IMO--so I have no problem with you stealing stuff and being NG. (Unless you steal from the party, or steal in a way that is is sick and twisted.)

My two coppers.

:)
Tony
 

Stealing is definately a chaotic act. Deciding to have a stab at someone who you don't really have a grudge against, because they 'scared' you by rushing past also seems to be a bit chaotic. Nothing about your character suggests lawfulness, so I have to say you're chaotic.

As for good/evil. From all you've given there - neutral. I mean MAYBE you help people in need or something and just left it out, but you sure sound neutral to me.
 

DragonShadow said:
New campaign character is a Neutral Good Rogue with ranks in Sleight of Hand, Bluff, and all of the Roguey skills that make Rogues known as Thieves. Since he is, in fact, a thief, he uses his SoH to steal things when he has the opportunity (which is great when there's a Paladin in the party).

Alright, that's the first thing.


The second thing; the first session had the party going into the sewers, and to make a long story short, we found a corpse with special items on it. I had dibs on the bracers he was wearing, and when I tried to put them on, I passed out (failed save). When I came to, after the rest of the party removed the bracers and woke me up, I immediately put them back on. Somewhat counter-intuitive, maybe, but we're opperating under the premise that anything strong enough to knock you out just by wearing it is worth a lot and has to be good. (Which is why I was also dragging along a mace that was trying to level drain anybody that picked it up.) The problem with this? The other party members not only stopped me, but took the bracers and wouldn't give them back/let me know where they were.


Third thing; back in the sewers, the party comes across an alcove where a female druidess is hanging out. She apparantly lives there. I was talking to her at the time, and then the Paladin steps up and Detects Evil, and she is. So, now we're in combat, but I was still trying to talk to the woman, and she hadn't done anything to us to deserve being attacked. The party attacked, I readied my bow and waited until she actually did something to me to jump in. My PC's brother was disabled and groggy, I tossed a potion at him (not really caring whether he would catch it, or if it actually hit him and knocked him out. The potion was both stolen, and regardless of his being my brother, he had no business being there.) He withdrew from combat the next round, and to shorten the rest of the story the rest of the party nearly died but the Druidess ran away. When she ran past me (I never entered combat) I did take one shot at her, because she spooked me running right past like that.


So now you tell me your opinion: Am I -not- Neutral Good for these things? Here are my arguements as to why I am.

1- I am not lawful, but neither am I truly chaotic. I might lean more towards chaos than law, but that's a thing about being neutral. There is, to be cliche, a method to my madness...but not enough to make me lawful.
2- Stealing is not an evil act. I don't steal bread from hungry babies, I steal gold from people I run into, or items from a shop that I can't afford. So far, all I've taken was healing potions that the party couldn't afford to pay for.
3- I am not Neutral (on the axis of good/evil) because I will not do anything that is EVIL. It may not be "right" or altruistic, but it's still not evil.

So, you tell me what you think. I'm curious as to what EN-Worlders would say.

This has nothing to do with alignments, as given in the books.

1. You know how "never split the party" is the first rule of Dungeon Club? The second rule of Dungeon Club is "all for one, one for all". Being able to play nice with the other PCs is a prime consideration for many groups, and part of that means jumping in when the fighting starts. Never mind your alignment, you can sort that out after dealing with whoever is trying to kill you.

2. Your current alignment is "chaotic kleptomaniac". You are playing a kender, and rationalising it away. Many people find kender very, very annoying, especially when they have to keep saving the kender's butt. (So why do they keep doing it? -- See the second rule of Dungeon Club.)

In summary, stop being a kender, and play nice.
 



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