The Crossbow Ranger?

[loisel]

Hello guys,

I was pondering the worth of the crossbow ranger. What makes that build tempting is the paragon feat Steady Shooter, which grants +3 to damage if you haven't moved since the end of your last turn.

On your turn, you have to attack first, then move. In that way, you always have +3 to damage. Going from 1d10 to 1d8 costs you on average 1 damage, so it's a net gain of 2 (on average).

The equivalent Bow feat is Sly Hunter. It grants +3 to damage with a bow against an isolated target. But my hunch is that, most of the time, your enemies not be isolated (isolated = no other creature within 3 squares). Either they will have some of their friends next to them, or they will have some of your own party members next to them. This bonus is pretty situational, whereas the crossbow bonus seems easier to arrange for.

Of course, RAW, I'm not sure whether you can shoot multiple times per round with your crossbow EDIT: good catch by Lucas Blackstone, yes you can, see PHB217.

What do you think?

EDIT: here's an example. LVL 11. Assume Weapon Focus, +2 bow or x-bow and 22 Dex. Assume xbow gets Steady Shooter, but bow can't get Sly Hunter because of situational.
Twin Strike (Bow): 2d10+8 = 19 average.
Twin Strike (x-Bow): 2d8+14 = 23 average.
Advantage: 21% more damage for xbow.

Attacks on the Run (Bow): 3d10+30 = 46.5 average.
Attacks on the Run (x-Bow): 3d8+39 = 52.5 average.
Advantage: 13% more damage for xbow.

 

[tglord0001]

Covered

In the Equipment section of the PHB says this under crossbow "The crossbow is “load minor,” which means it requires a minor action to load a bolt into the weapon. If a power allows you to hit multiple targets, the additional load time is accounted for in the power.)."

Since most of the ranger powers allow you to hit one or two targets I think it would also apply to one target with 2 attacks. Ranger powers require some suspension of disbelief when dealing with crossbows, especially the power that lets you shoot everything within a certain range.

 

[hamishspence]

hawk the Slayer?

Was that the closest movie equivalent to a ranger rapid-firing a crossbow?

Admittedly it was not a very good movie equivalent.

 

[Ibixat]

Van Helsing... at least for a rapid fire crossbow =P dunno if I'd call him a ranger though.

 

[hamishspence]

no, rapid firing A crossbow, not a A Rapid-Fire crossbow

Helsing's weapon would be closer to a 3.5 ed repesting crossbow.

 

[Aservan]

It is an idea that comes up all the time. The crossbow was an inferior weapon to the longbow. It just wasn't as good. It takes longer to fire. Without modern composites it is very difficult to make a crossbow that can hold decent tension (arbalests are different story) because you have to keep the staves short.

All this means a long bow can fire faster and hit with more force then a simple crossbow. The advantage to the crossbow is that you can make them out of relatively common materials (no aged ash or yew required) and training people to use one takes an afternoon rather then a lifetime.

In the game the crossbow rules pretty closely mimics this. It takes a minor action to load one (which is on the low end for most people but hey you are a hero right?) and has both a lower range and lower damage. I am pretty sure they are not using this to model an arbalest which hits like a ton of bricks but takes a lot longer then a second to load and winch. They even got it right with the idea that it takes training to use the bows but anyone can fire a crossbow.

You can make your crossbow ranger but you will be at a disadvantage. There is no way yet to make it fire faster so you can only hit one person a turn with it.

The feat you are loving is neat until you get moved by an enemy (any push, pull or slide power will do). Not to mention it is less useful with a warlord in the party as he can't shift you all over the place.

Right now if you want to be really effective the best way to go is the elven longbow archer who can with the right feats move 10 squares in a turn (in paragon tier) and still get off an accurate shot. That lets you stay away so you can keep firing.

There are of course probably other good builds for an archer, but I don't think that one feat puts the crossbow archer up there.

 

[loisel]

In the Equipment section of the PHB says this under crossbow "The crossbow is “load minor,” which means it requires a minor action to load a bolt into the weapon. If a power allows you to hit multiple targets, the additional load time is accounted for in the power.)."

Since most of the ranger powers allow you to hit one or two targets I think it would also apply to one target with 2 attacks. Ranger powers require some suspension of disbelief when dealing with crossbows, especially the power that lets you shoot everything within a certain range.

Which is why I mention quick draw. On the other hand, there has to be a way of doing this, considering the Rogue 7 Encounter "Cloud of Steel" (basically the same as the Ranger you talk about), which mentions specifically the crossbow. I dunno if they're gonna clarify it, I know that the question was put to customer service, and the answer mentioned "quick draw".

 

[Lucas Blackstone]

Powers account for load times for weapons. So the crossbow could be used in conjunction with ranger powers. page 217 under the definition of load clearly states this.

However the lower damage and range is an issue like Aservan said.

 

[loisel]

However the lower damage and range is an issue like Aservan said.

You don't think Steady Shooter would make up for it? 1d8 vs 1d10 is -1 damage on average, steady shooter is +3...

Also, you can tote both a bow and a crossbow (and for the first 10 levels, you can just stick with longbow).

 

[loisel]

Powers account for load times for weapons. So the crossbow could be used in conjunction with ranger powers. page 217 under the definition of load clearly states this.

And by the way, good catch. This is much better than the quick-draw reply of customer service.