The "Anti-Villain"?

[Felix]

You have your normal Hero. They are virtuous, wise, strong, steadfast, fair, just, blah blah blah. There are of course variations, but they are Good people who set out to do Good things for the sake of Good.

You then have your Villain. They are wicked, powerful, corrupt, decieving, malicious, blah blah blah. Variations for this guy are legion, but basically Evil people who set out to do Evil things for the sake of Evil. (Some may argue that they set out for personal power, but that is a potential definition of Evil.)

Then here comes the Anti-Hero. Theiving, but somehow trustworthy; callous, but also compassionate; individualistic while posessing a tendancy for self-sacrifice. All in all, selfish folks who set out do to whatever for the sake of whadda-you-care.

All good, solid archetypes.

So where is the Anti-Villain? The guy who is honest and trustworthy whose actions end up unwittingly betraying those he cherishes. The guy who loves the little kiddies and somehow the worst things happen to them under his supervision. The guy who self-sacrifices for the greater good all the time only to have his actions seemingly benefit himself while detrimenting everyone else.

Who are these guys in literature and in other media? Oh, and Lord Soth doesn't count - he turned Evil and so took on the mantle of Villain. Nor the guys with the Villain patrons who use the good guys as pawns. I'm talking about the guys who don't understand why bad things keep happening to those around him while he amasses this power and fearsome reputation. Anyone?

 

[Wolfwood2]

So where is the Anti-Villain? The guy who is honest and trustworthy whose actions end up unwittingly betraying those he cherishes. The guy who loves the little kiddies and somehow the worst things happen to them under his supervision. The guy who self-sacrifices for the greater good all the time only to have his actions seemingly benefit himself while detrimenting everyone else.

Who are these guys in literature and in other media? Oh, and Lord Soth doesn't count - he turned Evil and so took on the mantle of Villain. Nor the guys with the Villain patrons who use the good guys as pawns. I'm talking about the guys who don't understand why bad things keep happening to those around him while he amasses this power and fearsome reputation. Anyone?

Gaius Baltar from the new Battlestar Galactica is sort of an Anti-Villain.

He doesn't have what you would call bad intentions, it's just that he's completely self-serving and lacking in any moral courage. In his head, he's a good guy, a hero, who only does bad things when everyone else forces him into it.

That's not exactly what you describe, but what you describe makes no sense. If someone actually does good with bad results that doesn't make him an Anti-Villain. That makes him a Hero who is stuck in a tragic story. See Oedipus.

You describe an anti-hero as, "Then here comes the Anti-Hero. Theiving, but somehow self-sacrifice. All in all, selfish folks who set out do to whatever for the sake of whadda-you-care.trustworthy; callous, but also compassionate; individualistic while posessing a tendancy for self-sacrifice. All in all, selfish folks who set out do to whatever for the sake of whadda-you-care."

That's someone who sets out to do evil, but doesn't really have the stomach for it and ends up doing good in spite of his intentions.

An anti-villains is the exact opposite. Someone who sets out to do good, but ends up doing evil because he can't bring himself to make the sacrifices necessary to do good. And that's Baltar.

 

[jdrakeh]

Who are these guys in literature and in other media?

Honestly, many Bond villains fit this mold. Dr. No, Hugo Drax, Max Zorin, and Elliot Carver are basically philanthropists who have gone off the deep end (mass murder for a better tomrrow, baby!). Then you have guys like Francisco Scaramunga who, despite being professional killers, have better manners and more rigid moral codes of conduct than most high society aristocrats. Or May Day, who wasn't genuinely evil, but simply very dedicated to a cause (a cause that she abandons when she realizes that Zorin is willing to sacrifice here to achieve his vision). The Bond franchise literally invented the "Anti-Villain"

Alternately, you may want to consider Tony Soprano who, depsite being a mobster, cares about things like his children being raised properly (including not swearing) and receiving good educations (the first episode I ever saw, he was driving his daughter to school and stopped off along the way to whack an informer who was in the witness relocation program). He's the archetype for the humanized bad guy -- he does what he does, not because he's evil, but because it's what he knows and what he's good at.

 

[Slife]

You mean tragic heros?

 

[Simplicity]

I wouldn't consider Baltar to be an anti-villain. He's utterly self-serving in everyway. He just manages to be likeable. He's more of an anti-hero.

For an example of an anti-villain, see Tyrion Lannister in George R.R. Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire" series.

Spoiler:

Spoiler

Everyone loathes him, but he continues to act fairly honestly and for the good of his kingdom. Only to see people hate him for it even more. And then pretty much everything he cares for slowly crumbles around him into total failure.

 

[Sejs]

So where is the Anti-Villain? The guy who is honest and trustworthy whose actions end up unwittingly betraying those he cherishes. The guy who loves the little kiddies and somehow the worst things happen to them under his supervision. The guy who self-sacrifices for the greater good all the time only to have his actions seemingly benefit himself while detrimenting everyone else.

Nah, that's not the Anti-Villain, that's just a hero with really, really bad luck.

An Anti-Villain would be the summary of the Opposing Good Guy. The enemy that truly seeks to do good, but is so dedicated to their cause that they are willing to perform lesser, necessary evils in the interest of their greater good.

They will march to war, kill innocents, betray allies and so on, so long as it furthers what they believe to be their laudable cause.

 

[Aaron L]

Magneto, in certain portrayals.

 

[Klaus]

I wouldn't consider Baltar to be an anti-villain. He's utterly self-serving in everyway. He just manages to be likeable. He's more of an anti-hero.

For an example of an anti-villain, see Tyrion Lannister in George R.R. Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire" series.

Spoiler:

Spoiler

Everyone loathes him, but he continues to act fairly honestly and for the good of his kingdom. Only to see people hate him for it even more. And then pretty much everything he cares for slowly crumbles around him into total failure.

Nice suggestion!

If the Anti-Hero is a hero against all expectations, the Anti-Villain is a villain against all expectations. He's a good person who still antagonizes the (heroic) protagonists.

Miko, of OotS fame, might qualify as an Anti-Villain.

 

[S'mon]

The villain is an antaogonist to the hero protagonist, the anti-villain lacks the standard 'villainous' qualities. Miko is a pretty good example, though she's normally more of a 'foil' than a true antagonist. Baltar is presented as a protagonist in the new Galactica, so he's technically an anti-hero.

I watched 'Serenity' the other day, there was some attempt to present the Alliance villain & indeed the whole Alliance as anti-villain rather than standard Darth Vader/Empire-style villain.

 

[Felix]

I suppose my original definition of an Anti-Villain was lacking; certainly some better descriptions of what Anti-Villain should mean have popped up. Tyrion Lannister is a good one: how many folks hated that guy until, you know, wink wink spoiler nudge nudge.

Keep it up, folks! Anti-villains deserve to be credited!