D&D 5E Teleport: Never been to location, but in possession of an object

[Baldurs_Underdark]

If a spellcaster with Teleport has an object from a location, but has never been to a location, would the teleport spell be successful?

The text of the spell says:
The destination you choose must be known to you, and it must be on the same plane of existence as you. Your familiarity with the destination determines whether you arrive there successfully.

If you have an associated object, the teleport will be on target. But what I am uncertain about is if it would succeed in the first place as the location may not be "known to you".

The spell description continues with: "Associated Object" means that you possess an object taken from the desired destination within the last six months. That does not specify that you had to take the object yourself.

I'm inclined to rule that you need to have visited a location at least once before you can teleport to it. Otherwise, even with an object in your inventory, if you have never been there, you roll the odds associated with "Description" is a place whose Location and Appearance you know through someone else's description, perhaps from a map.

If we turn this around, and you can safely teleport to a location when you have an object, even if you have never been there: Every location of importance would need to have Forbiddance cast on it (or some other anti-teleport spell that I'm not aware of) because there would be a black market for grains of sand or other worthless scraps from castles, vaults, libraries or other places with valuables so adventurers can teleport in. And being a servant in any such location means you need to undergo an extremely thorough investigation when you leave the workplace because a single grain of sand smuggled out can undermine the security of the location.

How would you all DM this?

 

[MarkB]

I'd rule that an associated object can't take you somewhere you have no knowledge of at all - i.e. you can't pick up an object and just teleport to wherever it came from - due to the "known to you" clause. However, if you're anywhere else on the Teleportation familiarity chart - even if you've only had the place described to you - then having an associated object lets you get there 100% reliably.

Of course, if you want to play around with blind teleporting using an object, that could be fun, but consider what being associated with a place entails. If the object is something that's effectively never left a particular location until someone picked it up there - i.e. a piece chipped off from the native stone, or a twig from a tree that grew there - then the association is pretty clear. But if you're using, say, a teacup filched from a manor house, that cup might be considered associated with the manor house, or with the pottery where it was crafted, or with the riverbed from which the clay was gathered.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Or the tavern the NPC who sold you the cup rested the night before. I agree that you need to have some way to distinguish between the infite number of places the object might have been through over the last six month. Ways to play it:

1. Apply RAW and allows blind teleportation (pick up a cup and cast teleport)... you'll get 100% of the time... somewhere. I'd rule it's the place where the object spent the most time because it must be "taken from" there, so it must have some connection to "there". Heavily favors teleportation, I guess, and favors sillyness.

2. Require familiarity by another mean (even a description of the place) to pinpoint the target [favors Teleportation heavily and "grain of sand" [or strand from the servant's uniform] blackmarket]. Serious, but heavily favors teleportation. Acquiring an object that "have been there once" can be quite easy. Not my prefered way of ruling it because if you've been once to a place, there is a strong chance your wizard's staff, or your wizard's underwear, was there also. And "a place you've been very often" is very familiar (25% chance of mishap)... Nobody would use that if they could just cast Teleport using their underwear to propel their magic. Imagine the silly countermeasures, as well: "you would not part an old man from his walking stick?" "yes we would. Also, strip naked, old fool, before entering the king's castle".

3. Require the object to have spent at least six month at the destination (any amount of time would work, but since the link dissolves after the object has been taken for six month, it's reasonable to imagine that the link takes six month to establish, so an object moved from A to B for six month is either linked to A, then B, but not the two of them at the same time.). It's consistent with the examples given. Nerfs the RAW a little, but perfectly playable. Heck, my players will usually teleport based on description anyway and eat the damage in case of a mishap (and get back home if they failed to roll high and start again the next day). (My favorite take)

4. Not RAW at all... drop it. Teleportation had a fair chance of screwing people when it was a 5th level spell. Now it's 7th level, like the old teleport without error. I understand putting the spell later in the game to avoid scry-and-die strategies, but when they're spending a 7th level spell to move around, the players should get wherever they want. Whats the next step? Wish to be at the destination? (My second favorite take)

 

[Fanaelialae]

Consider that such objects are only useful if you know someone who can teleport (which is likely to be quite rare in most settings). Additionally, the object must have been taken from the location within the last 6 months. If the object isn't from that location, or was taken more than 6 months ago, then casting teleport will probably result in a "description" teleport (43% chance of mishap). As such, I disagree that there would be a black market for such goods. Although it is possible that a servant might be contracted by someone nefarious to acquire such an item.

Moreover, I don't think I, personally, would allow something like a grain of sand to constitute the object for teleport. While it technically meets the RAW, I would require at least a fist sized object (or along those lines). This is in line with the examples given in the PHB (a book, some linens, or a chunk of marble).

If you don't want forbiddance on important areas, I would suggest simply adding a first level ritual to your campaign that enchants a portal such that any item that passes through it has its teleport potential nullified. Then the king's wizard's apprentice can negate any significant risk of such appropriations.

That said, forbiddence on important areas is probably a good idea if teleporting assassins (and whatnot) aren't unheard of in your campaign. After all, while there are risks involved, a person could teleport anywhere with no more than a description of the location.

 

[aco175]

I may introduce an object of worth over such as a grain of sand approach. The more known the object ids to a place means the more you can get there without a problem. A grain of sand would be worthless, a common teacup only slightly less. A teacup from the royal cupboard with the royal crest on it is getting somewhere, while the gavel that normally sits in the glass box on the magistrates desk except when it is passed around during formal meetings of the lord and commoners alike would be perfect.

I think there should be some sort of limitation. My first thought would be to find a shiny gold coin newly minted and teleport there. Then I thought every new coin would need to sit for 6 months in a prison cell to prevent this. Now think of all the trash coming from the castle, or more disgusting things you would not keep for 6 months before getting rid of.

 

[Fanaelialae]

I may introduce an object of worth over such as a grain of sand approach. The more known the object ids to a place means the more you can get there without a problem. A grain of sand would be worthless, a common teacup only slightly less. A teacup from the royal cupboard with the royal crest on it is getting somewhere, while the gavel that normally sits in the glass box on the magistrates desk except when it is passed around during formal meetings of the lord and commoners alike would be perfect.

I think there should be some sort of limitation. My first thought would be to find a shiny gold coin newly minted and teleport there. Then I thought every new coin would need to sit for 6 months in a prison cell to prevent this. Now think of all the trash coming from the castle, or more disgusting things you would not keep for 6 months before getting rid of.

I don't think that would work if you don't already know where the coins were minted. Since you still need to know where you want to teleport. I don't think that "the place where this coin was minted" qualifies, else why even include that requirement in the spell?

I agree that an object ought to have a connection to the place in order to function, though I think any item would do. The leg from a broken stool from the palace would be just as effective as the throne itself. But I don't think a banana peel left over from the king's breakfast ought to qualify.

Also, why does a 13th+ level mage want to bamf into the royal mint? Sure, it's got a ton of gold, but a mage of that level probably has more gold than they know what to do with. Additionally, there's no guarantee of what you'd be teleporting into. What if the treasury is guarded by a half dozen golems?

Finally, there are ways to prevent teleportation. Spells like Forbiddance are an easy option. Placing the location in a dead magic zone is similarly simple.

You could also add things to your campaign world that limit teleportation. Maybe ley lines confuse teleports, increasing the risk of mishaps. A castle build on a nexus of ley lines might be completely impossible to teleport to (which would incentivize castle builders to build on those spots, much like castle builders in our world favored strong defensive positions). Alternately, you could add a material (nobamfium) that restricts teleportation. Castles might be built of the stuff, while merchants might paint their walls with the crushed up mineral.

 

[Gadget]

Personally, I would but the limitation on the "grain of sand" rather than the object clause. I would rule that such a thing as a grain of sand is a violation of the spirit of the rule, if not indeed the letter. Evens so, an object that you have no idea where it is from should not be a sure method of teleporting. An object plus you have a fairly decent description and/or knowledge of the place, that's getting somewhere.

In most settings, you would have to worry about the old "scry and fry" if you are important enough anyways, though 5e has limited such shenanigans more than 3.x, thankfully. It all depends on how common and frequent opponents with access to teleport and divination spells are in the campaign. Sure, the PCs will run into such foes over the course of the campaign, but they can be somewhat unique. For those, such things as Nondetection, Mordenakainen's Private Sanctum and such will have to be employed to make sure of security.

 

[billd91]

I wouldn't necessarily consider the object to necessarily have worth as much as have a significant connection. Grain of sand, mote of dust - that's all pretty lame. But if you want to teleport into the queen's boudoir, having a tassel cut from her bed's curtains would be thematically connected enough to work.
By contrast, coins struck at the local mint wouldn't really be connected enough - there's legions of them and they go out to be circulated. Plus, I would expect the local mint to be hallowed by the local gods of commerce, the city, laws, or civilization and thus hedge out anyone trying to teleport in.

 

[jgsugden]

This spell instantly transports [the target(s)] to a destination you select. ... The destination you choose must be known to you, and it must be on the same plane of existence as you.

Known to you does not require prior personal physical access as the spell allows you to cast it whenall you have is a description. As this clause is applicable to all castings of the spell, and you can try with only a description, we know it was not intended to be that narrow.

... "Associated object" means that you possess an object taken from the desired destination within the last six months, such as a book from a wizard's library, bed linen from a royal suite, or a chunk of marble from a lich's secret tomb.

From the DMG:

For the purpose of these rules, an object is a discrete, inanimate item like a window, door, sword, book, table, chair, or stone, not a building or a vehicle that is composed of many other objects.

An object is discrete, inanimate and an item. Items are generally separate things with distinction that separate them from other things. For me, I'd say there had to be some intention to the item/object. Someone must have made a decision about it. That could have been to tear it off a plant, to craft it, to take it away intentionally, etc... That is what makes it a distinct object - the intention of someone. That fits in well with my magic system's underlying structure where much of the magic in the world is a manifestation of will.

 

[Stormonu]

I wouldn't necessarily consider the object to necessarily have worth as much as have a significant connection. Grain of sand, mote of dust - that's all pretty lame. But if you want to teleport into the queen's boudoir, having a tassel cut from her bed's curtains would be thematically connected enough to work.
By contrast, coins struck at the local mint wouldn't really be connected enough - there's legions of them and they go out to be circulated. Plus, I would expect the local mint to be hallowed by the local gods of commerce, the city, laws, or civilization and thus hedge out anyone trying to teleport in.

Skip the mint, go directly to the mine where it came from.

Or, have a nasty letter sent to the local castle and just pick it up from the trash when it's thrown out (finding it via, say, Locate Object). Use it to teleport into the reading room of whomever it was addressed to.

Overall, I pretty much agree. It should be an item of some significance - even if it's just emotional attachment, and some knowledge of where you're going to go - at least a name for it, down to the room/area.