Teleport and Sneak Attack

[Aluvial]

One of my characters has an item that allows them to teleport as a move action.... I did not have a problem with this, because the item only allowed a move of 40' which at most, allowed the character to avoid attacks of opportunity, or to get to previously unaccessible locations quickly. Since this character was an archer, the item never was an issue because usually, the character used the item to move further away from targets.

Then the character traded the item to the rogue. So, in theory, the rogue can teleport as a move action, and then get a standard action after the teleport. But, after I thought about it, this seemed to me to be very similar to attacking from invisible.

If the character teleports into melee range, they have essentially "come from the blue" and appear right next to their target. Do you think that this type of situation would mean that the target would lose their Dex bonus to AC since they were not aware of the attack?

Aluvial

 

[Nebten]

Not unless he was hidden before he teleported. If he was 40' away in an open field, then teleported to within striking range the enemy would not be caught flat footed.

In the end though, this will be something for your DM to decide.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

By RAW, teleporting from a short distance away on its own wouldn't get the enemy flat-footed, though DM could houserule it to be so. Even if it were allowed, I don't think using it in a round to get a single sneak attack is particularly overpowered. And if it's a limited per day item (I'm guessing it's from MIC, right?), even less so.

 

[frankthedm]

One of my characters has an item that allows them to teleport as a move action.... I did not have a problem with this, because the item only allowed a move of 40' which at most, allowed the character to avoid attacks of opportunity, or to get to previously unaccessible locations quickly.

That is still really powerful. read the item carefully.

But, after I thought about it, this seemed to me to be very similar to attacking from invisible.

If the character teleports into melee range, they have essentially "come from the blue" and appear right next to their target. Do you think that this type of situation would mean that the target would lose their Dex bonus to AC since they were not aware of the attack?

Not in the slightest. First off a move action is a long time in a life or death struggle. It is approximately jogging thirty feet. It can easily be 10 jogging feet worth of wind up -BAMF!- 10 jogging feet worth of cool down

Invisibility breaks after the blow is struck and won't even carry over to the second attack of a full attack routine

 

[bobhayes]

I would say no, the target would not lose their bonus to AC, IF the rogue was visible to the target when he teleports. "Hey, where'd he go? Oh, there he is, trying to stab me. Sneaky little bugger."

If the target didn't see the rogue teleport, then I would say absolutely the target would lose their AC. It would be "out of the blue".

It doesn't seem that overpowering, if it's a limited use. If it's an at-will item, then that's pretty overpowering. The easy fix is, a better rogue hears about it, comes along, and snaffles it.

 

[Empirate]

It doesn't seem that overpowering, if it's a limited use. If it's an at-will item, then that's pretty overpowering. The easy fix is, a better rogue hears about it, comes along, and snaffles it.

1. Even if it's usable at will, it's only the equivalent of the Improved Feint feat, with the built-in ability to always succeed on that Bluff check to feint. It's a move action to use (as is feinting with IF), so all you'll get is a standard action to attack. At mid levels, this will quickly lose its lustre. Just be careful if the PC rogue goes into Telflammar Shadowlord...

2. Easy fix: just take it away? Easy it may be, but also rather heavy-handed, don't you think? Looks a bit too much like DM arbitrariness to me... how about having a game balance talk with your group, see if they think its overpowered, before just disallowing it? The "a better Rogue hears about it and steals it" justification sounds rather thin to me.

 

[orion90000]

If the teleport was a free action (quickened teleport) then I would allow it the same way a phase spider shifting from ethereal to material as a free action catches the opponent flat-footed. Just remember that wouldn't effect a character with Uncanny Dodge.

 

[Sekhmet]

This is definitely an interesting topic.
As a DM, I'd be hard pressed to disallow this particular tactic if the user teleported directly behind the target in question. No chance of peripheral vision catching them, so they are unable to dodge, twist, bend, or otherwise reflexively avoid an attack (which is what a DEX modifier is).
Treating it similarly to a Phase Spider's ability; it takes a move action to cast, but the teleportation is still as instantaneous as a Phase Spider phasing.

While this tactic may seem overpowered at low levels (where a 40 foot teleport is overpowered for any class), at mid and late levels, the loss of actions will prevent it from being used too often, and it will end up either being cast aside for more useful items or used only as a means of engaging a melee; not during a melee.

 

[kitcik]

I agree

From a flavor perspective, this certainly seems like it should work. It's cool, and not overpowered.

I had a home-brew character way back in 1st Ed that was a Shontz. This was a DM-created race that could perform a small number of short distance teleport-without-errors per day. He basically used it to teleport behind enemy casters and interrupt their spells.

 

[Aluvial]

I wanted to clear up something on the item. It only functions 3/day. This prevents it from happening regularly, usually once to overcome an obstacle, and usually once in combat in an aggressive manner. Most often the third use is for escape purposes, as this character is a rogue archer.

I agree with the phase spider analogy. Thanks for the advice.

Aluvial