Telepathy Question

[Mordfane]

Hello All

I have a player in my game who's playing a pixie sorcerer. I have allowed him to have a pseudodragon as a familiar and one of its abilities is telepathy. Now, I haven't had the opportunity to deal with telepathy before and I'm wondering just how it works.

It's obvious to me that the pseudodragon can communicate with someone mentally. But what I'm wondering is how does your regular non-telepath communicate back to the dragon. Would, for example, an elven member of the party ( being a non-telepath) have to communicate thoughts back to the dragon verbally, or can the dragon "read" the elf's thoughts, therefore allowing the elf to communicate mentally as well, or would the elf have to be telepathic also, in order for there to be 2 way mental communication?

Fare Thee Well!

 

[Knight Otu]

Only the pseudodragon can communicate telepathically. Unless noted otherwise, a non-telepath cannot communicate back (there are a few creatures that allow it). The non-telepath has to use other wayss of communication to answer, such as verbal, or by sign language. The couatl is an example of a creature that allows the recipient to respond without needing to be a telepath.

Telepathy (Su): A creature with this ability can communicate telepathically with any other creature within a certain range (specified in the creature’s entry, usually 100 feet) that has a language. It is possible to address multiple creatures at once telepathically, although maintaining a telepathic conversation with more than one creature at a time is just as difficult as simultaneously speaking and listening to multiple people at the same time. Some creatures have a limited form of telepathy, while others have a more powerful form of the ability.

 

[Syntallah]

Hello All

I have a player in my game who's playing a pixie sorcerer. I have allowed him to have a pseudodragon as a familiar and one of its abilities is telepathy. Now, I haven't had the opportunity to deal with telepathy before and I'm wondering just how it works.

It's obvious to me that the pseudodragon can communicate with someone mentally. But what I'm wondering is how does your regular non-telepath communicate back to the dragon. Would, for example, an elven member of the party ( being a non-telepath) have to communicate thoughts back to the dragon verbally, or can the dragon "read" the elf's thoughts, therefore allowing the elf to communicate mentally as well, or would the elf have to be telepathic also, in order for there to be 2 way mental communication?

Fare Thee Well!

Telepathy is generally only a form of communication. Unless specifically stated, it does not allow the reading of thoughts.

In the case you've mentioned, the pseudodragon mentally addresses the elf, and the elf would respond by speaking.

 

[Mordfane]

Part of what's confusing me, is that in the Monster Manual, under pseudodragon companions, it states "A pseudodragon may very rarely seek humanoid companionship. It stalks a candidate silently for days, reading his or her thoughts and judging his or her deeds.

Fare Thee Well!

 

[Mordfane]

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Fare Thee Well!

 

[Umbran]

Okay, by strict reading - the telepathy power says that the creature can communicate with others. Note, that is "with", not "to". If I speak to you, I say words at you. If I speak with you, we have a conversation back and forth. Seems to me that the communication is supposed to be two-way.

Couple that with the flavor text about reading minds, and you've got a case for two-way communication. The counter, though, is that being able to read minds willy-nilly, without saving throws or the like, is really powerful stuff.

The couatl may be a bit misleading. It seems that the thing that makes a couatl distinct is not that the communication is two-way, but that the communicating creatures don't need to share a language. The couatl can communicate with anything. The pseudodragon is limited to those who can speak Common or Sylvan.

In the end, the question is - how do you want it to work? If you want two-way telepathy, you may want to limit the pseudodragon to reading those thoughts that are intended as communication to it, rather than allowing it to fully read the mind of another as if it were an open book.

 

[woodelf]

Only the pseudodragon can communicate telepathically. Unless noted otherwise, a non-telepath cannot communicate back (there are a few creatures that allow it). The non-telepath has to use other wayss of communication to answer, such as verbal, or by sign language. The couatl is an example of a creature that allows the recipient to respond without needing to be a telepath.

Telepathy (Su): A creature with this ability can communicate telepathically with any other creature within a certain range (specified in the creature’s entry, usually 100 feet) that has a language. It is possible to address multiple creatures at once telepathically, although maintaining a telepathic conversation with more than one creature at a time is just as difficult as simultaneously speaking and listening to multiple people at the same time. Some creatures have a limited form of telepathy, while others have a more powerful form of the ability.

I'm not sure how you have conversations, but mine involve communication in both directions. Based on the Telepathy ability description alone, i'd say that the communication is telepathic in both directions, but that the creature with telepathy hears what the other participants want her to hear. IOW, the pseudo-dragon doesn't read thoughts willy-nilly, but can "hear" those thoughts that the people it's talking to want it to hear. After all, why would the telepathy description even mention "listening to multiple people" if the ability didn't allow "listening", as well as "talking"? That, coupled with the fact that it describes it as "communicate with" rather than "talk to"--the former strongly implies two-way, while the former almost explicitly denotes one-way.

So, to answer the original question: IMHO, the pseudo-dragon can communicate silently with anyone who wants to communicate with it. You can't stop it talking to you in yoru mind, but you don't have to respond, mentally or otherwise, and it can only read those thoughts you want it to, so you can lie and keep secrets. Perhaps a Will save vs. some sort of skill check if you're trying to hide something while the pseudo-dragon is trying to trick you into revealing it.

 

[Knight Otu]

The couatl may be a bit misleading. It seems that the thing that makes a couatl distinct is not that the communication is two-way, but that the communicating creatures don't need to share a language.

Even normal telepathy does not require a shared language. If the creature could normally respond, the second sentence in the couatl's telepathy writeup would be meaningless.

Telepathy (Su): A couatl can communicate telepathically with any creature within 90 feet that has an Intelligence score. The creature can respond to the couatl if it wishes—no common language is needed.

I'm not sure how you have conversations, but mine involve communication in both directions.

Of course communication is two-way, but the methods of communication may differ. You give me some advice, and I raise my thumb as a sign that I understand and approve. That is what I was aiming at.
I stand by my original post, but admittedly, it is only an interpretation.

 

[Umbran]

Even normal telepathy does not require a shared language. If the creature could normally respond, the second sentence in the couatl's telepathy writeup would be meaningless.

No. Look again.

The Pseudodragon entry specifes Common or Sylvan.
The normal Telepathy power specifies that the target critter must have language.
The couatl entry specifes that the target critter must have an Intelligence score.

The couatl entry specifically mentions answering back because it allows critters to "speak" even if they don't normally have language (shared or otherwise). That's worth a special mention.

However, that special mention doesn't say that a person who knows Sylvan cannot respond to a pseudodragon. The couatl explication is for a special case.

Plus, you don't hide clarifications on a general power in the description of one particular critter. The basic telepathy power doesn't say the target cannot respond. The language it uses implies the opposite, in fact(communicate "with" rather than "to"). The basic telepathy power also refers to keeping up telepathic conversations. If the entire conversation is telepathic, it must be two-way communication.

 

[Salad Shooter]

And remember...no matter how confusing the rules are, you can always just decide which fits the story better, and through the magic of Rule 0, make it so. IMHO, you should allow the psuedodragon to "speak" into his targets mind, but not read the others mind without some sort of rolls. I'm not familiar with any of the stuff in the XPH, there might be something in there about reading minds. Like Umbran said, reading minds without any sort of check can be rather powerful, and could potentially unbalance the game. Of course, if the familiar is in the GMs control, mayhaps something potentially damaging to the game that the dragon learns could be dusted off as inconsequential, and the dragon doesn't relay it to the PC. Or something. Just my thoughts...