Telekinesis - Disarm & Grapple

[Gwarthkam]

1: Are you considered unarmed (-4 to disarm) when using telekinesis to disarm?

2: If you want the item in your hand, and thus have to attack unarmed, is there still the -4 penalty even though you are using telekinesis?

3: When using telekinesis for grapple do you use the casters size modifier or someting else?

Thank you in advance

 

[Plane Sailing]

My answers

1. No, you are at no risk to yourself

2. N/A, I don't think you can do this as a single option with Telekinesis. You are simply not using your own hands to do the deed.

3. Use no modifier. An Ogre wizard wouldn't get a +4 modifier just because he is big.

Basically just go with the spell description is enough, I think. It tells you what to include and just go with that.

Regards

 

[Nail]

I disagree with PlaneSailing.

The description from the spell:

Combat Maneuver: Alternatively, once per round, you can use telekinesis to perform a bull rush, disarm, grapple (including pin), or trip. Resolve these attempts as normal, except that they don’t provoke attacks of opportunity, you use your caster level in place of your base attack bonus (for disarm and grapple), you use your Intelligence modifier (if a wizard) or Charisma modifier (if a sorcerer) in place of your Strength or Dexterity modifier, and a failed attempt doesn’t allow a reactive attempt by the target (such as for disarm or trip). No save is allowed against these attempts, but spell resistance applies normally. This version of the spell can last 1 round per caster level, but it ends if you cease concentration.

The yellow is added for emphasis.

According to this, a straight reading of the text, you do get your size modifer to the grapple check.

As for disarming: It's an open question how you treat the attack, and what kind of weapon you deem it. It has nothing to do with "risk to yourself".

It's certainly not a two handed weapon..... Since the telekinesis attack is closest to a natural weapon attack, and natural weapons are concidered light weapons of the creature's size (right?), then the telekinesis has a -4 on the check + whatever size difference there is between caster and target.

 

[Plane Sailing]

According to this, a straight reading of the text, you do get your size modifer to the grapple check.

The danger here is that you throw logic out of the window. The highlighted text can equally mean "roll the dice and resist with the same attributes" as normal etc.

Logically how would the size of a creature affect its telekinetic ability? No reason that I can see, and I don't think the text supports it.

As for disarming: It's an open question how you treat the attack, and what kind of weapon you deem it. It has nothing to do with "risk to yourself".

It's certainly not a two handed weapon..... Since the telekinesis attack is closest to a natural weapon attack, and natural weapons are concidered light weapons of the creature's size (right?), then the telekinesis has a -4 on the check + whatever size difference there is between caster and target.

This is simply another value judgement, no more or less correct than mine. Well, obviously I think it is less correct

I still don't think that there is any good reason for making up modifiers for the spell that it doesn't need.

Cheers

 

[Nail]

A agree about the value judgement aspect, I disagree that we need to apply it here, though.......

....but you know I'd say that, eh?

 

[Gwarthkam]

Thanks for the replies

I agree that the casters size shouldn't count, the only downside is that in a world of giants they would never use this option of the spell against each other and in a fey-world it would be extremely potent.

I'm not totally convined that it is impossible for the caster to get the weapon/item in his hands after a succesful disarm with this option. I can't see anything in the text that hints this and most importantly it would look good