Tasha's Hideous Laughter - broken?

[Masseter]

I've just started DMing again after a long break, and have noticed that THL seems remarkably overpowered for its level (1st or 2nd.)

As I read the spell it takes a creature completely hors de combat for 1 round / caster level (longer than most fights last...) and in addition easier to hit (+4 bonus vs prone combatants) nor does hitting it seem to break the spell. While not 'helpless' the creature is useless, unable to move, fight or cast, generally until the rest of the combat ends, and then easy to mop up afterwards.

Compared to hold person which is an equal or higher level spell, it not only affects non-humanoids (albeit with a +4 save bonus) but the creature in question doesn't get to try to break the spell each round (I remember back in 3E the major complaint about hold person was that it was sort of a low level save or die spell, and the 'new save each round' was presumably to overcome that complaint?) So it seems to effectively be a level 2 (or 1!) 'save or out for the rest of combat' type spell with no HD limit - well above the power curve.

Have I missed something in the spell mechanics? Am I getting worked up over nothing? Advice (on spell mechanics or how to handle it in my campaign) would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Arkhandus]

Tasha's Hideous Laughter (or Tasha's Uncontrollable Hideous Laughter as it used to be called, which was better) has a random duration of 1d3 rounds, though. You might get 1 or 2 rounds out of it, but not likely to get 3 rounds out of it.

A cleric can cast Hold Person at his 3rd level (it's 2nd-level for clerics) and get 3 rounds out of it, as long as the opponent doesn't make their 2nd or 3rd saving throw. It probably has a better chance than THL to get a 3-round duration, and has the capacity (though unlikely to work often) to last even longer once the character is higher than 3rd-level.

Hold Person makes the target helpless, so you can kill them with a coup de grace (or better yet, your party's rogue can do that for you before the victim even gets a second chance at the saving throw against Hold Person). Tasha's Hideous Laughter just makes the victim ineffective for a moment, and a bit easier to hit (but not as easily hit as the victim of Hold Person).

Tasha's Hideous Laughter is Close range, so you have to be close enough for an enemy to charge you (if they make their save, or if they have allies around). Hold Person is Medium range, so you can be a good, safe distance away from melee attacks (and you could always just cast Entropic Shield or Protection From Arrows to aid against ranged attacks).

 

[Masseter]

Hmmm ... my 3.5E Core PHB gives 1 round / level duration - not 1d3 rounds - has it been officially changed somewhere I didn't know about?

I do acknowledge that the paralysis (and ability to be CdGed before the creature's next turn) make hold person situationally stronger (if you happen to have a fellow party member standing next to the affected creature able to make a full-round coup attempt) but I'm just worried that while you don't get the 'instakill' effect of combining hold with another character's coup, you still take a creature out for pretty much the length of the combat (my party are currently 6th level.)

 

[Shin Okada]

Usually, Glitterdust is more popular 2nd-level will-save Sor/Wiz Spell. It may affect on multiple targets. No "different creature type" modifier. Even effective against mindless undead monsters. And most blinded opponents cannot do much and are easy preys, especially at the level-range which 2nd-level spell is considered to be one of meaningful offensive spells. And Glitterdust has another use, too (reveals invisible things).

 

[Doug McCrae]

Magic is broken.

Tasha's is good. So is glitterdust, web, mirror image, invisibility, scorching ray, spider climb, summon swarm, blindness/deafness, command undead, alter self, rope trick, bull's strength and protection from arrows.

Like everything else, it's situational. If you've been having a lot of encounters with single powerful humanoids with bad will saves, it's going to seem like the business. If you've been facing skeletons it's going to seem like a waste of time (but command undead would be amazing).

 

[Arkhandus]

Even if you don't have an ally to do the coup de grace, you can always do it yourself on your next turn. Carry a scythe with you just for that purpose, even if nonproficient. It ain't hard at all to hit someone who's standing still and unable to so much as twitch.

BTW, regarding the duration, I forgot that it was changed from 3.0 to 3.5 for some stupid reason. Like a lot of core spells. Most of them also being very senseless, poorly-thought-out changes. But then, that's my opinion on 3.5 in general, too. :\

And yeah, Tasha's Hideous Laughter isn't that popular a 2nd-level spell, anyway. Glitterdust or Web will more readily take a whole group of enemies out of the picture to some extent (if they can't see you, they hardly have any chance of hurting you, and if they're stuck in webs, they still can't hurt you).

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

Tasha's hideous laughter is a first level spell for a bard. I used to think that bards suck. Now I am playing one with this spell and I've changed my mind!

Ken

 

[Masseter]

Thank you for the input .... I think that helps put it in perspective. I'm still considering house ruling it but I'll probably think harder in the light of comparison with glitterdust and web (whereas previously I'd only looked at hold person as a comparison.)

 

[Arkhandus]

Tasha's hideous laughter is a first level spell for a bard. I used to think that bards suck. Now I am playing one with this spell and I've changed my mind!

Ken

Bah, that just means the save DC for the bard version is lower.

 

[frankthedm]

Yeah, will save or screwed for first or second level spells is always a mistake IMHO.

Thank you for the input .... I think that helps put it in perspective. I'm still considering house ruling it but I'll probably think harder in the light of comparison with glitterdust and web (whereas previously I'd only looked at hold person as a comparison.)

May I suggest the spell ends if the victim is attacked by a foe?