Targeting into Concealment

[Dragon Mage]

Can you target a creature that has total concealment? For example someone is in fog and has total concealment over 10 feet, can they be targeted with a magic missile spell from someone outside the fog?

 

[shilsen]

No. If firing into an area of total concealment you can pick a particular square and fire, and if there is something in that square you might hit it (after taking a 50% miss chance). But with spells that require a target, you can't choose a target with total concealment unless you can touch it.

 

[Dragon Mage]

I thought that was the rule for spells that required a touch attack, not for spells like Magic Missile (or a targeted Dispel Magic).

 

[Krelios]

You have to be able to see your target to select it; with total concealment, you cannot see a target, so you cannot choose it.

 

[Bad Paper]

You can, however, target someone with MM if you can touch them, e.g. in perfect darkness.

 

[irdeggman]

You can, however, target someone with MM if you can touch them, e.g. in perfect darkness.

No you can't.

per the SRD

The missile strikes unerringly, even if the target is in melee combat or has less than total cover or total concealment.

Perfect Darkness renders someone blind and all opponents of blinded creatures have total concealment.

In many cases, some characters or monsters might be able to see, while others are blinded. For purposes of the following points, a blinded creature is one who simply can’t see through the surrounding darkness.

—All opponents have total concealment from a blinded creature, so the blinded creature has a 50% miss chance in combat. A blinded creature must first pinpoint the location of an opponent in order to attack the right square;

 

[irdeggman]

In general for "targeted spells":

Total Concealment: If you have line of effect to a target but not line of sight he is considered to have total concealment from you. You can’t attack an opponent that has total concealment, though you can attack into a square that you think he occupies. A successful attack into a square occupied by an enemy with total concealment has a 50% miss chance (instead of the normal 20% miss chance for an opponent with concealment).
You can’t execute an attack of opportunity against an opponent with total concealment, even if you know what square or squares the opponent occupies.

 

[Infiniti2000]

No you can't.

Based on the rules under Aiming a Spell and Target or Targets, with my underlining:

Target or Targets

Some spells have a target or targets. You cast these spells on creatures or objects, as defined by the spell itself. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose that target. You do not have to select your target until you finish casting the spell.

That means that if you can touch the target, you can target them with a Targeted Spell. What "touch" means, however, is not clear. Is it a melee touch attack (presumably) or is it automatic? 50% miss chance or not? If it requires a melee touch attack, does the spell now follow the rules on touch attack spells (presumably not)?

But, does this conflict with the MM description? If so, which one has precedence (presumably MM). That means you can't MM someone in total darkness, but you could hit them with a phantasmal killer or charm person.

 

[Bad Paper]

That means that if you can touch the target, you can target them with a Targeted Spell. What "touch" means, however, is not clear. Is it a melee touch attack (presumably) or is it automatic? 50% miss chance or not? If it requires a melee touch attack, does the spell now follow the rules on touch attack spells (presumably not)?

But, does this conflict with the MM description? If so, which one has precedence (presumably MM). That means you can't MM someone in total darkness, but you could hit them with a phantasmal killer or charm person.

Thanks, I2k, for finding that. For non-touch spells in darkness I would force a total-concealment melee touch attack, but if you fail, the spell fizzles (since you can only hold touch spells for longer).

 

[Gansk]

That means that if you can touch the target, you can target them with a Targeted Spell. What "touch" means, however, is not clear. Is it a melee touch attack (presumably) or is it automatic? 50% miss chance or not? If it requires a melee touch attack, does the spell now follow the rules on touch attack spells (presumably not)?

But, does this conflict with the MM description? If so, which one has precedence (presumably MM). That means you can't MM someone in total darkness, but you could hit them with a phantasmal killer or charm person.

The intent of the "touch" part was to allow spells with a touch range to work with concealment, so you can try to cure your invisible buddy by touching him with 50% miss chance. It was not to turn phantasmal killer and charm person spells into ranged or melee touch attacks only when your opponent has concealment.