Switching from bow to swords - how does it work?

[Mercurius]

I'm trying to figure out exactly what actions are required to switch from a bow to a melee weapon (or two melee weapons). I assume that without any feats or other abilities, it takes one minor action to sling the bow (and none probably to just drop it?), another minor (or move) action to draw the melee weapon(s) and then the character could attack with the usual standard action? Or, instead of attacking, they could move?

Now for the character in question - an 11th level ranger with Quick Draw, switching from a greatbow to a paired bastard sword - it seems that you save an entire action. Quick Draw allows the sword to be drawn and attacked with as a minor action; it also improved the paired weapon so it doesn't take a minor action to split it - that is a free action.

So let me see if I have this correct:

Bow-to-melee weapons
Minor action - put bow away
Minor action (instead of Move) - draw melee weapons
Standard action - attack with melee weapons

Bow-to-melee weapons (with Quick Draw)
Minor action - put bow away
Standard action - draw melee weapons and attack
Move action

Bow-to-melee weapons (with paired weapon)
Minor action - put bow away
Minor action (instead of Move) - draw melee weapons
Minor action (instead of Standard) - split paired weapon

Bow-to-melee-weapons (with Quick Draw and paired weapon)
Minor action - put bow away
Free action - draw* and split paired weapon
Standard action - attack
Move action
*Technically that draw is part of the attack action, but sequentially would occur before the splitting.

Is all of that correct?

 

[twilsemail]

It takes a minor for each melee weapon so some of your turns up there are a bit short on actions.

With quickdraw/paired weapon: you can't take a minor in the middle of another action, so you can draw the weapon and hit someone with it and then split the weapon, but you can't split it while twin-striking.

*rereads post and scratches out useless text above*

He may want to look into Master at Arms, which allows a free action weapon swap.

Quick Draw allows the sword to be drawn and attacked with as a minor action;

It actually doesn't require any action at all.

it also improved the paired weapon so it doesn't take a minor action to split it - that is a free action.

This is a house-rule, I'm assuming?

 

[OSEZNO]

Bow-to-melee weapons
Minor action - put bow away
Minor action (instead of Move) - draw one melee weapon
Minor action (instead of Standard action) - draw other melee weapon

Bow-to-melee weapons (with Quick Draw)
Minor action - put bow away
Minor action - draw one melee weapon
Standard action - draw second melee weapon and attack

Bow-to-melee weapons (with paired weapon)
Minor action - put bow away
Minor action (instead of Move) - draw melee weapon
Minor action (instead of Standard) - split paired weapon

Bow-to-melee-weapons (with Quick Draw and paired weapon)
Minor action - put bow away
Minor action (instead of move) - Draw & split paired weapon (you can draw and use an item with the action required to use it)
Standard action - attack

Fixed everything.

The splitting, since it is a minor action, is fundamentally no different action-wise from drawing a second weapon.

 

[twilsemail]

Fixed everything.

The splitting, since it is a minor action, is fundamentally no different action-wise from drawing a second weapon.

The only problem is that the action to which Quick Draw is attached must be an attack action.

The Ranger would need to do something like the following:

Bow-to-melee-weapons (with Quick Draw and paired weapon)
Free action - Drop bow
Minor Action - draw paired weapon
Move>Minor Action - Split weapon
Standard action - attack

 

[OSEZNO]

The only problem is that the action to which Quick Draw is attached must be an attack action.

Arguably, a rules lawyer could contend that that would be the case for mundane weapons where that is the only use for the item.

You can draw a weapon (or an object, such as a potion, stored in a belt pouch, a bandolier, or a similar container) as part of the same action used to attack with the weapon or use the object.

If his intent is to use the 'object' with a minor action to split it (that being what he wants to do with the item) and then separately use a standard to attack, it might be ambiguous enough for me to allow it.

 

[nogray]

Quick Draw ... You can draw a weapon (or an object, such as a potion, stored in a belt pouch, a bandolier, or a similar container) as part of the same action used to attack with the weapon or use the object.

Paired Weapon ... Power (At-Will): Minor Action. Split the weapon into two identical weapons, one in your primary hand and one in your off-hand. You can spend another minor action to recombine the weapons into one. If you have the Quick Draw feat, you can split or recombine the weapon as a free action

Master at Arms ... Also, you can use a minor action to sheathe a weapon and then draw a weapon.

Bow to Paired Sword -or- two swords normally costs three minor actions.
(minor) Stow Bow
(minor) Draw Sword
(minor) Activate Paired Weapon power to split -or- draw other sword

Paired Sword -or- two swords to Bow normally costs three minor actions.
(minor) Activate Paired Weapon power to recombine -or- stow first sword
(minor) Stow Sword
(minor) Draw Bow

Bow to Paired Sword -or- two swords costs two minor actions with the Master at Arms feat.
(minor) Stow bow and draw sword
(minor) Draw second sword -or- activate Paired Weapon power to split

Two swords -or- Paired Sword to bow costs two minor actions with the Master at Arms feat.
(minor) Stow first sword -or- activate Paired Weapon power to recombine
(minor) Stow sword and draw bow

Bow to two swords -or- Paired Sword costs one minor action with Quick Draw.
(minor) Stow bow
--with paired--
(free as a part of using the Paired weapon split power) Draw sword
(free thanks to quick draw) Activate Paired Weapon power to split
--with two normal swords ... this assumes twin strike or similar "attack with both weapons" power--
(free as part of the attack action) Draw swords

Two swords to bow costs two minor actions with Quick Draw.
(minor) Stow first sword
(minor) Stow second sword
(free as a part of attack) Draw bow

Paired Sword to bow costs one minor action with Quick Draw.
(free thanks to having Quick Draw) Activate Paired Weapon power to recombine
(minor) Stow sword
(free as a part of attack action) Draw bow

I think I got all that right. The Master at Arms feat doesn't add anything if you have Quick Draw -- well, other than the usual bonus to attack rolls. I agree with the interpretation by OSEZNO that using the power of a Paired Weapon can count as the "use an item" clause in the Quick Draw feat.

 

[Saagael]

The paired weapon specifically says:

If you have the Quick Draw feat, you can split or recombine the weapon as a free action

We know that free actions can occur inside of other actions, so a ranger with Quick Draw and a paired weapon could do:

Minor: Stow bow
Free: Draw paired weapon as part of subsequent attack
Free: Split weapon in the middle of the Standard action attack
Standard: Twin strike

EDIT: Ninja'd by Nogray

 

[Aulirophile]

Actually according to the latest podcast you can't take non-triggered free actions inside other actions (this literally means it is impossible to interrupt speech in 4e without a power that says "Trigger: Someone won't shut up.")

Which is retarded, but hey.

 

[Neverfate]

Also: ####ing magnets! How do they work?

 

[Saagael]

Actually according to the latest podcast you can't take non-triggered free actions inside other actions (this literally means it is impossible to interrupt speech in 4e without a power that says "Trigger: Someone won't shut up.")

Which is retarded, but hey.

Cool, another rule I'll be leaving by the wayside because I don't want to have to tell a player "Nope, you can't talk during an attack." That is a bit silly to me.