Switching a rogue's Evasion and Uncanny Dodge

[Grayhawk]

(For the following suggestion, try to consider the Rogue class on it's own, and not how the proposed change would compare it to the Barbarian, various prestige classes and 3.5 Ranger.)

How would you feel about letting the Rogue gain Uncanny Dodge at 2nd level and Evasion at 4th?

Even though I don't have players who cherry-pick class abilities by taking a few levels in different classes, I feel that an ability like Evasion is such a class defining ability that a mere 2 Rogue levels seem too small a price to pay to get it. Incidently, putting it off to 4th level makes the Rogue get it at the same time that the fighter gets his specialization.

Besides, I'm not even sure if the change would mean a reduction in the Rogue's power. Besides the occasional Burning Hands, how many times does a Rogue have a need for evasion at low levels? (For this I looked at the 1st and 2nd level core spells. By the time a Rogue is facing Fireballing opponents he's propably 4th level or above.)

At levels 2 to 3 when hit points are low (maybe only in the single digits), won't Uncanny Dodge be a consistently better ability to have?

(Obviously, it's in the hands of the DM which ability will se more use, but if a generalization can be made, I believe that Uncanny Dodge comes into play before Evasion, and as such is a more natural ability to get earlier.)

What do I seem to be missing?

 

[AeroDm]

Actually I sort of like that idea. UD does seem to be more useful at the low levels because you don't face the number of Area of Affects spells you do later, so pushing back evasion isn't much of a penalty. Not that I think the rogue needs more power, but that does make more sense. Kudos.

 

[Deset Gled]

Personally, I think this change is inconsequential enough that it's not worth changing; if it isn't broke, don't fix it. Waiting a bit to get UD is also an added incentive for rogues to take Improved Initiative early on.

If you think the change is worth it though, go for it. I don't think the switch will adversely affect gameplay in any way.

 

[clark411]

If a Rogue gets to level 2 and then switches over to a Poor Reflex class, he's not going to really get much joy out of the Evasion. If he switches to another good Reflex class, then he's probably going to suffer awhile in the BAB category as well as some others.

While I have seen a lot of players pick up a level or two of Evasion, I've never seen any of them gain as much benefit from it as someone who actually stuck out the Rogue class.

 

[Tywyll]

How would you feel about letting the Rogue gain Uncanny Dodge at 2nd level and Evasion at 4th?

Even though I don't have players who cherry-pick class abilities by taking a few levels in different classes, I feel that an ability like Evasion is such a class defining ability that a mere 2 Rogue levels seem too small a price to pay to get it.

Personally, I would be against it. To me, Uncanny dodge is such a sweeter ability then Evasion. As a DM, I loathe it. Invisibility is nearly useless. It nearly negates Sneak Attack, except when the bad guys can organize flanking, but I have fairly strategic players who are typically good at avoiding such things.

If I performed this switch I know they would immediately consider cherry-picking the class to get it.

But, YMMV

 

[pyk]

(For the following suggestion, try to consider the Rogue class on it's own, and not how the proposed change would compare it to the Barbarian, various prestige classes and 3.5 Ranger.)

Quite honestly, one can not examine how a change in any way will affect the game with comparing that change to all parts of the game. And not just how it compares to Barbs or other classes that have the same ability. One needs to examine how the class will co-exist in a whole party situation. And, one needs to examine how this change may or may not affect the relative CRs of opponents. Imagine, what would this proposed change do to a party meeting up with 4-5 rogues at second level who have Uncanny Dodge instead of evasion?

As far as the same ability, Uncanny Dodge stacks with the same ability of other classes. So one would not need to have four levels of Rogue to get the stack with Barbarian, only two levels under your proposal.