Swarm vs Web??

[GodPhoenix]

How does a Web spell effect a swarm?

We just played an adventure where my players ran across a hellwasp swarm in a tainted forest. The Rogue/Wizard/Arcane trickster threw down a web spell right down on the swarm. We weren't really sure how to handle the situation ...does every single creature (5000) get stuck in the web? if some get stuck what happens to the swarm which is treated as a single creature? etc...

I thew down a quick rule-zero that the swarm took 2d6 damage per 5foot move through the web as some of the creatures got stuck. Is there an actual rule that covers this? Has the sage or anyone in a position of authority spoken to this?

Thanks!

 

[dok]

How does a Web spell effect a swarm?

Looking at the Swarm subtype description, here's my knee-jerk reaction:

*If the Swarm failed its Reflex save, it would be unable to move. Breaking free would be nearly impossible (Escape Artist check of DC 25, the swarm gets a +6 for dexterity) so it would be caught. If the Web was then set fire to, the swarm would suffer an additional 50% damage from the fire (per the Swarm subtype being vulnerable to area-effect attacks)

*If the Swarm made its Reflex save, it would have to roll an Escape Artist check every round to move (as per the Web spell). Since you only move 5' for every 5 full points over the DC (5), and the Hellwasp swarm had a +6 to the check, it would have its movement reduced to 10' a round, on average.

The net result would be that the Swarm would be stopped until it either made its Reflex save or Escape Artist check, and probably for two rounds more after that while it tried to get free. It wouldn't actually deal any damage to the swarm, since the Web wouldn't kill individuals, but it would stop the swarm as if it were an individual.

 

[GodPhoenix]

Yeah, we considered the web stopping the swarm...but I had a conceptual problem with the web stopping the swarm...even if it's treated as an individual monster. It's virtually amorphous...and under the swarm description the swarm can fit through any crack or opening any of its individual members can fit through (diminutive in the case of the hellwasps...which, by the way, resist fire)

The letter of the law may be with you...but it does feel wrong

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Seems about right to me - picture the web not so much as a classic spider's web as a room filled with cobwebs, strong, sticky cobwebs. While many of the swarms members might make their way through the majority would be caught in the strands. I would go so far as to make a ruling that the swarm would treat Web as an area effect spell, and be more sucseptible to it.

The Auld Grump

 

[kamosa]

depends on the type of swarm

I ran into this in the game Friday night. If the swarm is spiders I'd let it pass through the web.

 

[heirodule]

I ran into this in the game Friday night. If the swarm is spiders I'd let it pass through the web.

I THINK that I remember that spiders actually can get stuck in their own webs, its just they make 2 types of strand: ones that catch stuff and ones that don't. And they know/intuit which are the ones that catch and avoid them.

Since web is a "sticky strand" only spell, I'd say it would catch spider swarms

 

[Ottergame]

Spiders are no more safe other spiders webs than any other bug is. They only can move around the webs they build, because they know which strands are safe.

 

[Dirigible]

I think that taking damage is a fine solution; it represents some members of the swarm getting caught while others avoid the strands.

 

[Pax]

AFAIK, typically it's the radial strands that are safe -- the spiral itself is the "catcher" strand. This is because of the makeup of spidersilk itself -- it's sticky and glue-ey when it's not fully drawn out, IOW, when it's under insufficient tension.

The radial strands, or "spokes" of the web, are under full tension, and thus, are fully polymerised. The spiralling part isn't, and so, is sticky.

Me, I'd declare that a spider swarm could move through a Web spell at full speed if it made it's reflex save, or half speed otherwise. Nonflying swarms could move at half speed if they made their save, or be held by the web if they fail. Fliers ... quarter speed if they save, stuck if they don't.

And to represent "permanent" loss of some members ... I'd assess damage, some small amount (1d3, maybe), per 5x5 square of web the swarm moved through, during any round in which it's save was failed. Double that for fliers; they're more likely to get a wing fouled by the web, IMO.

 

[Kyramus]

from 3.5 players hand book on WEB: Web creates a many-layered mass of strong, sticky strands. These strands trap those caught in them. The strands are similar to spider webs but far larger and tougher. These masses must be anchored to two or more solid and diametrically opposed points or else the web collapses upon itself and disappears. Creatures caught within a web become entangled among the gluey fibers. Attacking a creature in a web won’t cause you to become entangled.

You conceptual picture of one plane of web against the swarm is wrong. The spell creates a many layered mass, which WILL catch the swarm as an individual without a problem.