Swallow Whole questions

[Gansk]

From the Battle of All Alignments:

A rust dragon is swallowed by a tendriculos (MM monster). Dragons are immune to the monster's digestive juices (which cause paralysis), so it is a race between the dragon cutting itself out and being killed by the monster's stomach acid.

Question 1 - Does the damage inflicted to cut out of the monster apply to the monster's total hit points? (In other words, if the tendriculos has 90 hp and the dragon does 25 hp while inside the stomach, does the tendriculos have 65 hp left?)

Question 2 - The tendriculos has regeneration 10. If the answer to question 1 is yes, then does the regeneration close up the hole before it is completed? (In other words, if the dragon has done 15 points of damage inside the stomach and the tendriculos regens, does the dragon need to do 20 more points of damage to get out?)

 

[glass]

Question 1 - Does the damage inflicted to cut out of the monster apply to the monster's total hit points? (In other words, if the tendriculos has 90 hp and the dragon does 25 hp while inside the stomach, does the tendriculos have 65 hp left?)

Yes.

Question 2 - The tendriculos has regeneration 10. If the answer to question 1 is yes, then does the regeneration close up the hole before it is completed? (In other words, if the dragon has done 15 points of damage inside the stomach and the tendriculos regens, does the dragon need to do 20 more points of damage to get out?)

IMO, the regeneration will not close up the whole that is half done, because you can't cut a whole in something with non-lethal damage and the regeneration does nothing for real damage, should you take any. The question then becomes, do attacks from withing automatically do real damage, or does the dragon still have to use an attack that would normally bypass the regeneration?

I can't see any reason why the it should not be the second one, apart from the fact that that makes regeneration and swallow whole and extremely deadly combo. If the dragon doesn't have anything that can bypass the Tendriculos's regeneration he is doomed.

All in all, ouch!

glass.

 

[Infiniti2000]

The damage is either part of the creatures normal pool of hp (and treated accordingly, regeneration and all) or not. I argue that it's not, because "the plant's regenerative capacity closes the hole." Unfortunately, the tendriculos is not worded clearly, but if you use other monsters as guidelines, then it's clear that cutting your way out does not in fact otherwise damage the monster (i.e. apply the damage to its normal pool of hit points). As an example of this, the t-rex states that you deal the damage to the gizzard and, despite the fact that t-rexes do not have regeneration, the hole closes.

Maybe the abilities are different in different creatures, but it sure is a lousy ability when swallowing creatures makes them much easier to kill you.

If, however, you do apply the damage to the creature, then certainly the regeneration starts closing up the hole. After all, that's where the damage occurred, right? Additionally, even in a monster without regeneration, if the hole closes up then the monster regains those hit points, right?

 

[Gansk]

Bludgeoning and acid damage bypasses the regen, so the dragon can bite its way out.

But probably not fast enough!

Could the dragon breathe on the hole to make it bigger?

 

[moritheil]

Could the dragon breathe on the hole to make it bigger?

It should be able to, while being immune to its own breath weapon. However, I don't think that is supported in the raw - only cutting out.

 

[glass]

Bludgeoning and acid damage bypasses the regen, so the dragon can bite its way out.

Reading the Tendriculos's entry in the SRD, I notice that you need to do piercing or slashing damage to cut your way out. Since the regen prevents you from doing piercing or slashing damage, I can only conclude that the description of regen closing the whole opverrides the regen's usual effect when attacked from within. Otherwise, there would be no way to cut your way out and the sentance about doing so would be a waste of ink!

Since regen closes the whole after it has been cut, I might have to reconsider my position on its trying to do so while the whole is being cut.


glass.

 

[Goolpsy]

I wouldn't count the damage dealt to the gizzard to count against the creatures HP...
Then the Ability would be awefully weak... Not only would the sentese "wow i get less damage from being eaten by the dragon than fight it from the front" but if the damage were counted against the creatres hp a new sentese would be made up quickly "Guys COME ON gogo get eaten, Its the easiest way to kil lthe dragon, the gizzard doesn't have a Damage reduction, and you wont take as much damage here. I just love killing these weak dragons" ...

 

[glass]

I wouldn't count the damage dealt to the gizzard to count against the creatures HP...
Then the Ability would be awefully weak... Not only would the sentese "wow i get less damage from being eaten by the dragon than fight it from the front" but if the damage were counted against the creatres hp a new sentese would be made up quickly "Guys COME ON gogo get eaten, Its the easiest way to kil lthe dragon, the gizzard doesn't have a Damage reduction, and you wont take as much damage here. I just love killing these weak dragons" ...

I wouldn't count it against the creatures hp in the case of the Tendriculos, because of the regeneration it is non-lethal damage (I would count up the non-lethal damage though, in the usual way).

In the normal case, however, if you do damage to a creature, you do damage to a creature. Are you suggesting that having a whole cut in you side big enough for a human to get out of wouldn't hurt?

As for deliberately getting eaten to attack from the inside: You are taking automatic damage each round (unless immune), you are limited in weapon choices, you leave the creature free to attack your comrades, and who says there is no DR from the inside?


glass.

 

[Infiniti2000]

In the normal case, however, if you do damage to a creature, you do damage to a creature. Are you suggesting that having a whole cut in you side big enough for a human to get out of wouldn't hurt?

Yes, that's what I am suggesting. The reason is because the hole closes. I.e. it's gone. New creatures swallowed have to cut themselves out again. If the hole closes, then the damage is gone. If you argue that the damage remains, then you must be wanting to houserule that the holes don't close.

As for deliberately getting eaten to attack from the inside: You are taking automatic damage each round (unless immune), you are limited in weapon choices, you leave the creature free to attack your comrades, and who says there is no DR from the inside?

You may take automatic damage, but in many cases (I daresay all) you will take far less damage than being attacked from the outside. Even more importantly, you will have a far easier time to hit from the inside. It becomes a ridiculous situation, particularly if you cast resist acid on yourself before diving into the creature's maw.

 

[Gansk]

Yes, that's what I am suggesting. The reason is because the hole closes. I.e. it's gone. New creatures swallowed have to cut themselves out again. If the hole closes, then the damage is gone. If you argue that the damage remains, then you must be wanting to houserule that the holes don't close.

I'm not so sure that you can make an assumption that closing a hole and healing are the same thing. The wound may be sealed off from the standpoint of the creature's internal organs, but the internal organ itself could still be exposed and bleeding through a wound in the skin.

You may take automatic damage, but in many cases (I daresay all) you will take far less damage than being attacked from the outside. Even more importantly, you will have a far easier time to hit from the inside. It becomes a ridiculous situation, particularly if you cast resist acid on yourself before diving into the creature's maw.

In the case of both the tendriculos and the tyrannosaurus, the internal AC is two less than the external AC. Since swallowed creatures are considered grappled, they get -4 to hit while inside, which makes the effective AC two better than the external AC. Plus only light weapons can be used, spells are a pain to cast, etc. So I don't see a clear advantage to being swallowed except possibly as a defensive strategy to avoid more damage.

Did you see Men in Black?