Summoning Ifrit

[Gaiden]

In the vein of making a Final Fantasy type summoner, I drafted up stats for Ifrit using an efreeti as the base creature. (Actually, the only thing I did was detail specific feats as opposed to those listed in the MM and give him items).

So the next question is how do you summon him? I was toying with the idea of adding him to a summon monster spell list as a house rule. See:

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=2177502#post2177502

I would think he would be put somewhere between SM VII and SM VIII.

However, it seems that this may not even be necessary. Using planar binding/ally, couldn't you broker a deal that you cast a sending to contact him and then he would have to planeshift to your location (you could give him a refuge stick to accomodate the variability with planeshift). As far as I can tell, you would effectively summon him to your location, just in a round about way. Moreover, he would arrive the same round as if summoned with a SM spell but not be able to act the turn he arrived (except perhaps for a MEA - standard action to plane shift and standard action to break refuge stick). To a limited extent this could be done with various planar creatures effectively filling out the sujmmon list.

The benefits of a summon monster version of summoning are that Ifrit would not truly die if killed and that it would be far less costly than giving him a refuge stick for every time you wanted to summon him. (And if he were summoned via a SM spell, he would not be able to use his wish granting ability).

The sending/planeshifting/teleporting trick is kind of sick because for a 5th level spell for that day you could get the benefits of something on the power level of an 7th or 8th level spell (albeit with some serious preliminary costs). Also, there would be no reason to limit the wish granting ability if called in this fashion.

As I mentioned in the other thread, as an aside, why isn't every 11th level wizard summoning up efreeti, to get wishes all the time?

The idea of a Final Fantasy type summoner I think can be accomplished by this planar ally/binding type of calling to first broker the deal of future calling (but with far less time - to be effective in a combat situation).

So what say you, the populous of EN World?

 

[Sejs]

The Final Fantasy style summons would definitly be Summoning spells (rather than Calling) - anything that happens to the Esper/GF/Etc doesn't really bother them. You're summoning their projection, and even if it were destroyed you could just call on it again.

Personally I'd have them as unique additions to the Summon Monster list that you can only call upon after doing the traditional 'fight the creature' thing, and being granted the ability to summon them.

May also considder making it the domain of a special 5-lvl PrC. Normal magicians can summon monsters, etc. Summoner PrC members can call these guys once they get their permission.

 

[Sejs]

You even could, in theory, change the 'special effects' on a spell such that they're more closely related to Summoning. Wouldn't change the spell's school, or anything really, just how it would appear.

Normal mage casts fireball, and shoots a small nugget of fire at the target, which explodes.

Summoner casts fireball, summons Ifrit for a moment who coalesces a volleyball o' flame and lobs it at the target, which explodes. Ifrit fades out/desummons immedatly afterward. All the pertinent spell stuff is still calculated from the caster because how effective the spell is, is dependant on how well you are able to channel the summon. Effectivly, Ifrit himself could probably chuck a fireball well beyond anything you could pull off, however you arn't able to summon that power fully. The higher in level you get, the more of that power you're able to call up.

 

[UltimaGabe]

As I mentioned in the other thread, as an aside, why isn't every 11th level wizard summoning up efreeti, to get wishes all the time?

Because no spell, if I'm not mistaken, forces an Efreeti to grant Wishes. And if any DM knows what he's doing, he's not going to just let someone summon an Efreeti and get free wishes- or get free wishes by any means at all, for that matter.

 

[Gaiden]

Because no spell, if I'm not mistaken, forces an Efreeti to grant Wishes. And if any DM knows what he's doing, he's not going to just let someone summon an Efreeti and get free wishes- or get free wishes by any means at all, for that matter.

Think about it from the perspective of the efreeti though and not the DM. Planar Binding can call an Efreeti and the wizard is within his right to demand a wish. The efreeti can't use them for himself anyway. If the wizard is good enough he would ensure tha the efreeti absolutely cannot break free (unless he rolls a 1). Does the efreeti really want to remain trapped for that many days, when he can just use an ability designed for others anyway and be free. Moreover, the whole idea of using the third wish for the Efreeti I can't help but think would have substantial persuasion over the Efreeti. Rules wise, I can't see why all wizards would not be tapping this resource.

 

[Sejs]

Rules wise, I can't see why all wizards would not be tapping this resource.

Because most players live in abject fear of wishes.

Particularly in the case of wishes from an evil source, rightly so.

 

[moritheil]

Efreeti are often depicted as being malicious in their fulfilment of wishes demanded of them. This isn't to say that as a clever enough wizard, you can't exploit this, just that you should be careful. And you should probably avoid handing your DM a 3 page legal document detailing your wish as well - that tends to annoy them, which is arguably worse than having a poorly worded wish.

Rules wise, I can't see why all wizards would not be tapping this resource.

 

[Gaiden]

Efreeti are often depicted as being malicious in their fulfilment of wishes demanded of them. This isn't to say that as a clever enough wizard, you can't exploit this, just that you should be careful. And you should probably avoid handing your DM a 3 page legal document detailing your wish as well - that tends to annoy them, which is arguably worse than having a poorly worded wish.

So it sounds like the only reason to not do this has nothing to do with the game but fiat of the DM. That sounds kind of lame to me. If I was the DM and a player was knowledgable enough to know about efreeti, was sly enough to engineer an appropriate planar binding, and crafty enough to propose an amenable set of wishes, I am not going to alter what that player wants just because he used game mechanics effectively - that would just be assanine.

Heck, as a player casting planar binding I would pose it like this: "Efreeti, I would like you to grant me 3 wishes, the third of which I will use to benefit you (without any harm to myself). You don't have to grant me these wishes. In fact, you can go back to your plane at any time. But I have a feeling you might want to stick around and reap the benefits of that third wish. What say you?"

If I was a player and the DM continually made every Efreeti warp the wishes I was asking for even after using a wish for the efreeti, I would know that the problem was not with the Efreeti, or the spell but with my DM.

 

[Sigurd]

The flaw in this is the convention that the 3 wishes are something that is free for the efreet and that he cannot use the effort himself. Both of those are convention and not very realistic.

IMC

Wishes can take a lot of effort - that they look simple from the wishers perspective is only because they care little for the imposition on the efreet and because the efreeti are that good.

If an efreet cannot figure out a way to make something happen he goes to the great bazaar and seeks aid. This aid is never free, its not even cheap. Many is the efreet weighed down by bargains he was forced into to achieve a stupid wish. Permissions to get, wars to avoid, or cause. All manner of things. Of course Efreet rarely 'wish' themselves they don't need the agrivation. When you have the powers of the great Djinn what else can you need.

That is not to say that djinn have no ambition, or that they have never had great plans for themselves. Still nothing can shorten an immortal's life faster than stirring things up. That is for mortals - they have such small lives. Death seems almost redundant.


s

 

[atom crash]

A PC wizard binding an efreet to get 3 wishes is to the efreet what a telemarketer who calls just as you sit down to dinner is to you. And the efreet can't choose to just not answer the phone.

An evil, intelligent, 10-HD extraplanar creature with free will who stands 12 feet tall is going to resent being taken from its home plane and forced to provide a service for a puny mortal wizard. Especially if that "service" happens to be its most potent magic. Even if you promise to use the third wish for the efreet's benefit; after all, how many times has it heard this lie before?

"Efreet love to mislead, befuddle, and confuse their foes. They do so for enjoyment as well as a battle tactic." They are lawful evil; that means they will make pacts with loopholes in order to promise you something they intend never to fulfill. Their pacts will be designed to mislead, befuddle, and confuse you. You'll have to carefully word any wish you coerce the efreet into giving you.